Low-end amp for bass in tri-amp setup...

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by latheofheaven, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Hello all!

    For quite a long time I used a tri-amp setup where I used a pair of matched amps for the high end (dipole line array: mids, upper-mids, tweeters - 12 drivers a side running full range except one capacitor only as a crossover for the tweeter) running dual-mono (one amp per channel for complete separation) and another bigger stereo amp for the low end (2 dipole 12" woofers crossed over only with inductors in series) Well, after running my system that way for quite a while, the big low-end amp died. So, I went to a bi-amp setup with my matched amps, one for the high-end drivers, one for the low end woofers.

    What I would LIKE to do is find another good low-end bass amp that is affordable to drive the woofers again. The special key word here is 'affordable' :) (well, another key word here too is 'Bass', Punchy & Defined [well, I guess that's 3 words...] [​IMG] ) I can probably get away with about 100-200 watts a side, I think.

    It's been quite a LONG time since I've bought anything like this, so I thought it would be wise to come and ask here since many of you are quite experienced with this kind of thing to get some suggestions for stereo bass amps. I suppose that I could just throw a 100 watt a side Sherwood receiver in there too which would be pretty affordable / practical for about $120 (their amps are discrete) but it WOULD be nice if I can zero in on what you guys think would be a good bass amp to drive the woofers (preferably around maybe $200, but perhaps as high as $500 if it really makes a big difference. They don't need any kind of low pass EQ or crossovers (I use absolutely NO tone controls or anything else in the signal path) I would much rather they be straight amps and I will use my inductors to roll off the highs. It really WOULD be kind of handy though for balanced volume levels between the highs / lows if there was a remote for the volume. But, if not, I can do what I did with my old bass amp, and just set it for optimum volume and only adjust the high-end to match.

    Really appreciate any suggestions, thanks! :tiphat:
     
  2. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    I would simply purchase a Dayton SA230 class D amplifier from Parts Express and be done with it for $234.00, problem solved. :edthumbs:
     
    SandAndGlass, timind and Mike-48 like this.
  3. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Yes, I was looking at one of those the other day. Unfortunately, I don't think you can bypass the parametric EQ fader and I can't remember if there is a volume control. I'll go and look at it again.

    BTW, this is NOT for any surround / television application; this is strictly for critical audio listening.

    Thanks mate!

    ***EDIT

    Yes, it really does look nice! But you cannot defeat all the EQ stuff. No good for me... I really need something a bit more cleaner and straight through for what I'm using. Thanks though! :)
     
  4. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    There is a volume control and I took a 1500 cabinet, put a beefed up Eminence driver in it, and am driving it with the Dayton, and it's fantastic, plenty of relaxed power, and yes it has a volume control, heavy, beefy, and works like a charm. Here is a pic
    'of my set up.
    Definitive Technology Powerfield 1500 Powered Subwoofer (Complete Total Upgrade) | eBay
     
  5. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Yeah, that looks awesome! And, for a home theatre system it would probably be great :)

    But, for fine audio listening, I cannot have the signal path going through all those tone / EQ controls. That is an absolute NO NO for me... :tsk:

    Thanks though!
     
  6. beppe

    beppe Active Member

    Location:
    Venice, Italy
    My suggestion is completely different. Sel all and buy a single affordable and high quality amp.
    A single amp, if well paired with your loudspeakers, priced "x" is certainly better sounding than three amps, a+b+c="x".
    And more affordable too.
     
    Litejazz53 likes this.
  7. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    One amp to power 24 drivers? That's a tall order, even for the likes of a Crown amp. Ooft, that's busy!
     
    Litejazz53 likes this.
  8. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    We all have our opinions, but I just want to say your system just seems so complicated and excessive where excess is not needed. You never said why your low frequency amplifier failed, possibly impedance mismatch difficulties? I just think simplicity is so much more desirable, unless you are just a zillionaire and need more amplifiers than you have money! For any normal home audio system, two mono block amplifiers is all anyone needs, and that is too much for most aplications, it's just too much, not to mention the darn electric bill. Three amplifiers is total overkill and again, IMO is simply excessive, don't do it. You use the words "critical audio listening" as well as " affordable" and those words don't mix! I used to have (2) Jeff Rowland mono blocks, and paid electric bill every time I turned the darn things on, oh my gosh! Finally I got smart, and sold both, put money in the bank and bought my Parasound HALO A-21 stereo power amplifier and am living happily ever after. You may have too many darn speakers going in too many directions. If you don't choose to rethink all these speakers and tweeters, and want to continue with this multiple amplifier scenario, and you want reasonable quality for money spent, I am going to suggest the Parasound "Classic" line of amplifiers, they are reasonable quality, not HALO, but you are not paying for HALO, so, how about (1) Parasound model 2125 V.2 stereo amplifier OR the Parasound model 2250 V.2 stereo amplifier, you will not find a company that stands behind their product for the long term more than Parasound. :agree:

    Amazon.com: parasound 2250

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=parasound+2125&rh=i:aps,k:parasound+2125

    Here is a review on the 2250:

    Want 5,7, or 12 channel theater sound ? This is not for you. If you Want clear , music then go this route . pair with a Parasound 2100 pre amp, Polk audio RTI A 9 speakers (or a pair of good speakers your choice) sit back, relax and enjoy music the way it used it be before theater sound ruined stereo. This will go loud and clear as desired.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  9. timind

    timind Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brownsburg, IN USA
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  10. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Ah, lovely! Thank all of you for your excellent suggestions; I really appreciate it.

    As far as driving all those 'drivers' :) The guy who designed the panels / driver setup for me showed me that the secret no matter HOW many drivers you have is wiring them in such a way to keep the impedance where it should be. So, in this case, the setup is wired serial/parallel. For example, each set of 4 upper mids are wired in series, which by themselves would raise the impedance to a high 16 ohms (IIRC I THINK these drivers are 4 ohms, but they might be 8 :)) Anyway, then each group is wired parallel to each other (switching polarity) thus halving the ohmage.

    So, when all is said and done, and factoring in the 8 ohm ribbon tweeter on each side, you have a combined ohmage of I THINK roughly between 6-7, which any amp can drive easily. Something like that :)

    Of course, the 2 woofers would be a straight 8 ohms each, so driving them stereo would be regular for any amp, I would think.

    The 'Simplicity' which you mention quite rightly comes in NOT in the amount of drivers / amps, but in the fact that there is the ABSOLUTELY MINIMUM of what is needed in the signal chain. Thus my avoidance of any tone controls / EQ in the path. Also, it comes in with the absolutely simplicity of one capacitor per SIDE of high end drivers (only for the ribbon tweeter) and only using inductors in series to roll off the highs for the woofers. THAT is what I feel myself is the important part of keeping it 'simple' :)

    However, with that said, the point is and has always been, that it doesn't take LOT of money or expensive components to achieve what I can afford and am shooting for for image clarity, separation, and soundstage. THOSE things in my lowly and wretched opinion are what are HUGELY affected by a lot of the additional unnecessary things in the signal path.

    FWIW, that's the basic idea...

    So, now to look at those great amps you guys suggested! :D

    Thanks!
     
    timind likes this.
  11. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    BTW, that Crown looks lovely! [​IMG]
     
    timind likes this.
  12. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Hey, I snagged the newer version of the Crown 1002!

    I read until I went blind (Well, I got better...) and it honestly looks like EXACTLY what I am looking for :) Even Audiophile guys raved about how good it was, so that is a good sign.

    Thank you SO much Timind for the bloody EXCELLENT suggestion!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    timind likes this.
  13. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    I have a second equipment rack behind my TV/HT set up. I have a Crown XLS 2000 and I drive a large Yorkville commercial sub, with a single 15" driver.

    Here is a photo, that was posted earlier in the hurricane Irma thread.

    [​IMG]

    The Yorkville sub is directly to the left of the A7 cabinet in the background.

    I have the Crown set to summed mono. This makes 1,800-watts RMS available to the sub.

    Let me tell you, it does what it is supposed to do.

    You will really enjoy your Crown, excellent choice!
     
  14. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    I'm so glad you found something that will work for you, and I do have a request. Can you take a few pics of your set up where we can see what you have, and post it on the forum, it would be interesting to see! :righton:
     
  15. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Forum Resident

    Location:
    S FL
    Got power yet?
     
  16. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Forum Resident

    Location:
    S FL
    Got power yet? Pompano Beach here. Most everything is still out.
     
  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Our power came on yesterday, in the afternoon, quite a pleasant surprise.

    If you like, you can come visit us for a few days. :)
     
  18. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    First and foremost, I'm glad that you are okay in the hurricane area SandAndGlass! Wow, sounds like that must be THE subwoofer now to beat ALL subwoofers! :D

    I think I have a set of pictures of my listening room in my profile; I'll check and if so I'll copy it here. I'm looking forward to trying out the Crown! I DO hope though that the pre-amp out section of the amps will be strong enough to work. Apparently the Crown has 2 sensitivity inputs, so that might help.

    Cheers! :tiphat:

    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=a1UteVFrRHFoV2p5X2c3NWNOckVHVVJabl9iNlVn
     
  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Very NICE!

    You will have no problems driving the Crown.

    I have a HT/Stereo set up in the other corner from where one of my guests is making coffee in the photo above.

    A really neat thing about this space is that wall behind the A7 and the sub, goes back 6' at the other corner, so there is plenty of room for the 60" curved TV on a stand, which houses the streaming box, Oppo player, the processor, center channel amp, and front mains power amp. In addition, I can still fit two large tower speakers on each side of the TV (I have a speaker A/B selector switch).

    There are two more rear towers and a large Polk rear wireless sub, to fill in.

    The other A7 cabinet is on the North wall. There are three complete systems in the room and sometimes I run all of them at the same time.

    There is one sofa facing the HT/Stereo and the other is in front of the south wall facing the A7's, which are powered by all tube amplification.

    When sitting on the second sofa, my front mains are to my left and the rears are to my right, with the tube driven A7's directly in the center.

    The three separate analog volume controls are where I can reach them with my left arm resting on the back of the sofa. To add some additional sound reinforcement directly to my right, I have an additional vintage La Scala hooked up in parallel to what would be the right rear HT speaker.

    This is one of those situations, where the sum is way greater than the individual components.

    One interesting thing that I do is to split the preamp out of the iNova, which I use to select inputs, the internal DAC and preamp (I don't use the power amp section, opting for external's). The preamp output is split three ways, on for the front, one for the rear's and one for the sub.

    When I'm not in HT mode, I have the sub cables running through the processor and I have the LFE's channel connected to the Crown. By doing this, I can use the remote on the processor to control the volume of the sub and to set the sub's profile on the processor.

    There is an incredible synergy in the system. Right now, I am sipping a nice cold Extra Pale Ale (Sweetwater 420) and listening to streaming Jazz, with the sub bringing in a nice deep natural sound. Horn loaded subs sound so natural.

    With all the speakers going, practically the entire room becomes the "sweet spot". You can walk around the room, you can stop and turn in any direction and the sound signature will change, but still sound great.

    When having guests over, I have them sit on the HT sofa, while I run the helm. I don't normally light up the A7's for HT, as the HT components, which are shared with the stereo components, are quite beefy enough by themselves.

    With HT, where there is a lot of audio SFX action, I can light the A7's.

    I don't know if you have had the pleasure the have viewed the Twilight saga, so I won't be doing any spoilers. But... There is one particularly excellently written part that is climatic both with the script, the characters and the visual and audio effects.

    I have introduced many, many friends and personal guests to the complete series, during movie nights and everyone that has had my presentation of the series, comes away very impressed! During this one particular action scene, I crank up the A7's and the sub all the way.

    It is truly a religious experience! (Oops, can't go there, forum rules and all) :angel: (...can I even use this emoji?, let's find out)

    I have some other ideas, tactical feedback from sonic transducers mounted under each sofa and powered by plate amplifier's. Hopefully, I will explore that idea, in the not to distant future.

    I had given some thought to upgrading the sub to maybe one with two 18" drivers. That is some really serious bass!

    But, 1) I literally have no more space to occupy and 2) it is difficult to contain really deep bass, as this is within an operational motel. The office is fairly well insulated and does contain sound effectively.

    S&G
     
  20. timind

    timind Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brownsburg, IN USA
    Her we go:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Wow!! That's all I got.:righton::righton:
     
    John Woo likes this.
  21. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Dude... if ANYONE EVER again accuses me of overkill, I will immediately and gleefully direct them to YOU! :D Geez man... An operational motel...??!! DAMN, yeah, I guess you can absolutely say that you are approaching and have likely fully SURPASSED a religious experience!

    And a Pale Ale to boot!!!

    Just be mightily glad my friend that the hurricane didn't visit you and give all your nice stuff a good bath! Now THAT would be a 'Disaster'! [​IMG]
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  22. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven Active Member Thread Starter

    Thanks Bro! I have some other shots on that link that you should have seen too that gives you a few different views and a closeup of the record cleaning machine I built :)

    Let's see if I can throw a few more on here...

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  23. timind

    timind Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brownsburg, IN USA
    I did look through them and wondered what the last pic you posted was. Your RCM. Very nice.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  24. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Forum Resident

    Location:
    S FL
    What a gracious offer! No power past Sunday I may take you up on it!
     
  25. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    I will PM you with more information. Our local SHF members really need to get a chance to meet in person.
     

Share This Page