Luke's Stones SACD Sampler Review

Sorry you disagree. The point I was trying to make, though, is that those early LPs weren't recorded as an LP, not like "Buttons" or "Beggar's Banquet" or "Let It Bleed" etc., were. Songs from the same sessions might be spread out over two or more LPs--where's the sense in that? So why not release those early songs in a way that DOES makes sense? What's the point in having hit singles, for example, included on a separate disc when they were recorded in sessions that are represented by tracks on an LP/CD?

If having a "box set" mentality means including impossible-to-find songs side-by-side with their more common brethren--especially when they all were recorded during the same sessions--then sign me up. I say it's about time that the Stones were given some sort of special treatment, not only because of the group's importance to rock 'n' roll, but also because of the embarrassingly haphazard way their catalog has been represented all these years. Much lessor stars have been given real "star treatment." I'm just not so sure that this current round of reissues does them justice.

 

Can't wait to hear the RS remasters... but I also would like to see a new remasters from Sticky Fingers and Exile On Main St.

 

Sign me up too.

If I could have my way. I would do a chronological session by session COMPLETE box set that goes up to but not including Aftermath (i.e. 63, 64 and 65). The way MOSAIC and BEAR FAMILY do it. Anything else will always be deficient in some way.

BC

 

Now you're talkin'!

 

Thoughts

Some more random thoughts/notes after listening to the disc a little bit more:

- the two Chess tracks (It's All Over Now and 2120) seem to sound just as good as on the London CDs. Keep in mind that 2120 has never been in stereo on CD before, so this is a real treat (as will be the rest of the 5 By 5 tracks on the 12x5 LP).

- the folding in on certain tracks is a bit disheartening. It's not overly noticeable, but of course that begs the question, if you're only going to change it a little, why change it at all? It seems very arbitrary, as some songs are slightly folded in (I Am Waiting, Dandelion, etc) while others are not (Ruby Tuesday, Under My Thumb). Why worry about extreme stereo separation when the Chess tracks are as wide as they come (and they were not futzed with)? Luckily things are NOWHERE near as bad as they were on some of the older ABKCO issues.

- most of the crackling during Midnight Rambler has been removed.

- I don't like that new mix of Satisfaction any more than when I first heard it.

- I like the fact that they tried to make Paint It, Black sound like the LP (rather than the somewhat clouded EQ of the London CD version), although something doesn't *quite* seem right about it.

- I think in general the EQ is sitting better with me now than it was when I first put the disc in. Monkey Man is still a tad glaring, but I think perhaps that has more to do with the original recording than the mastering. I don't have a copy of Let It Bleed handy to compare. You Got The Silver (from the same album) sounds great, IMO.

While I do think the EQ could be better in places, I don't think it is anything to get worked up about.

 

No Satisfaction?

Why are you dissatisfied with the Ludwig/Virgin remasters?

I was floored by the improvements. The two albums you mention never sounded better to me, even on vinyl, where the dynamics would get shot to hell as the needle approached the end of the side. And BLACK AND BLUE is stunning, almost an audiophile CD.

Perhaps it was a case of not expecting much, but I thought Virgin's Stones overhaul was one of the most significant sonic upgrades of a major artist's catalog, right up there with Ryko's Elvis Costello reissues, and Sony's remastering of The Byrds and Simon & Garfunkel. I had no idea those four catalogs could sound so good.

 

Luke,

Does "Paint It Black" fade out like the single or does it still have the extended ending from the original ABKCO discs?

 

The sense is, that's how they were originally released and that's how we grew up hearing them.

 

We may have grown up hearing them that way, but that certainly didn't make it right. Besides, we're older and wiser now. Aren't you just the teensiest bit interested in hearing these songs sequenced the way they were recorded? I would think it would be fascinating to hear how the group grew in terms of song writing and musicianship.

 

jligon, I tend to agree with rontokyo here. The early Stones "albums" are really just patchwork collections, hastily and arbitrarily assembled by the record label to get more product out, not cohesive statements. I don't see anything particularly sacred about them.

On the other hand, I know the nostalgia of replicating what one "grew up on" can be very important for some. An ideal reissue campaign for a band of the Stones' caliber would probably be one that included all of the original collections and more comprehensive, Bear Family-type box(es) that document the sessions thoroughly and chronologically. That way all parties (collectors, historians, casual fans, nostalgia lovers) would be satisfied.

 

Er...while I haven't heard the single myself, I believe the stereo mix fades a bit early (~3:20) while the mono mix keeps gong (~3:40). Since this is the stereo mix, it is a bit shorter...

 

Stone Alone by Wyman to learn on ABKCO policy

Hearing the news on Stones remasters I browsed great "Stone Alone" by Bill Wyman to read how ABKCO and Alan Klein co-operated with the Band in the sixties. Now Judy (a daughter ?) wants to keep the re-issues as close to the originals ass possible. I wonder if they will pay Jagger and co. the same way as it was then and later (as originally intended by A.Klein).

I do not care about originals like December's hodge-podge. I think of subsequent sessions as the MAIN source for sequencing tracks on CDs.

Many words said by Judy shows how incompetet she is on Stones earier CD editions - Some tracks WERE available (by mistake?) in Stereo or in longer forms (Everybody Nedds Somebody ... ) on German CDs - just the opposite of what she states.


If the audio quality of thracks from sampler IS just like the one from old CDs (as was said in the above review) it's better to keep the old issues still at home and save some money.

 

Re: Stone Alone by Wyman to learn on ABKCO policy

Er...that's *Jody*, not Judy, and its a he, not a she.

As has previously been mentioned, Everybody Needs Somebody was even released on the ABKCO CD in its long version.

I assume you're talking about the ICE interview with Klein. It sounds like he was put on the spot a bit, and probably isn't/wasn't familiar will all of the different releases over the years, at least not by heart. It seems that any mistakes made were honest, and not done intentionally.

Note that the 5x5 tracks have *never* been released in stereo on CD up until now.

Er...I don't think my review says that at all. Some tracks are similar, some are a tad worse, and some are much better. If Factory Girl is any indication, Beggar's Banquet will be far superior to the old CD versions.

 

I wouldn't deny that it may be interesting but ultimately, I would want to return to the original albums. I find that I reach for the original albums much more than i do a box set CD. Yes, it's nice (if you're a completist) to have every song neatly in one place but only if you listen to them often. Personally, I find that I don't.
Additionally, I love many of the collections that aren't necessarily "endorsed" by the artist. For example, I love the Beatles US Capitol releases. Yesterday & Today is actually one of my favorite Beatles Albums. And the Beatles Second Album was the first album I ever got when I was 3 years old.
I wouldn't balk at a "Complete Rolling Stones" that is offered the way you suggest in addition to their original releases but not in place of.

 

It's really not so much being a "completest" as it is trying to better ENJOY the group. Many songs have been all but unavailable to us even though they were properly recorded with other songs that have seen wide exposure. I kinda feel that we were cheated some thirty-seven years ago with the way the Stones' songs were released--but that's the way things were done then [differences between British and U.S. pressings; ep's and singles sometimes included on LPs, sometimes not; b-sides generally not included on the LPs, etc.]. Unfortunately, these problems weren't addressed in the first rounds of CD issues, and they don't appear to be solved this time either.

 

JJF was a mono single here in the U.S., but London also released an edited stereo 45. Label time reads 2:42 - which is a minute short - though I haven't timed it. The stereo spread is extremely narrow. The B side, No Expectations, is full stereo.

GM