"Making a Murderer" on Netflix

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by JimC, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    Yes, that's what I remember from MAM2, was curious about the super_pickle explanation. I bet Bobby and Scott Tadych know more than anybody else.
     
    rburly likes this.
  2. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I think it was the only computer in the house, since to my knowledge it was the only computer from the house that was confiscated. I would also add that Bobby Dassey might have very well have been the one to use it every time, but it's never really been proven, to my knowledge. Furthermore, while some might find those searches incriminating, I simply find them perverse, and evidence of virtually nothing. For starters, if Bobby Dassey was such a sick, homicidal maniac, where are the other murders? Even if we put that aside, the only type of Google searches that would implicate anything of substance would be in the vein of "how to dispose of a body" or "how to get away with murder". But indulging in sick fetishes online is evidence of what, exactly? It's like are you really not aware of the sick crap that people search for on the Internet?

    As far as the CD being withheld from the defense, I would have to see a rebuttal from the DOJ (or select Reddit members) before making up my mind about it. But bear in mind that stuff is hidden, concealed, and mislabeled from teams on both sides of the aisle all the time. Sometimes it's completely intentional, other times it's accidental. Defense attorneys might employ the very same tactics. If I remember correctly, Avery's own team did something similar in regards to the EDTA test, delaying it for as long as possible.

    For this sort of thing, you can find plenty of rebuttals on Reddit. Ultimately, you have to ask yourself what makes more sense: that two separate parties (the police and supposed "killer") unwittingly cooperated to frame Steven Avery for murder, thereby enacting one of the most elaborate schemes in the history of homicide? Or that the guy with a violent past who specifically requested the victim, who had a massive fire that night, and who cleaned up in the garage that night, is still the likely culprit? And don't forget that both seasons 1 and 2 of the doc rely on everything from biased reporting to downright misleading information in order to get their point across. At the end of the day, Avery is still the most glaringly obvious suspect (in my opinion).

    Speaking purely from my own perspective, I think you have to remember how psychics operate when tackling a situation like this. Zellner and the doc and the defense are kind of doing the same thing. Oh, Ryan Hillegas has a potential alibi? Then it must be Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych. Oh, the blood vial isn't evidence of anything? Then it must be blood from the sink. Furthermore, in lieu of nuance, they employ total misinformation (the vial in season 1, flashes of Lenk on the sign in sheet, improper information regarding the insurance policy, editing techniques when Colborn is on the stand, etc, etc, etc), and junk science (the bones couldn't have been burned in the yard, blood splatter analysis, "brainwave" readings), in hopes that you can't tell the difference. What's sad is how truly effective it was, as evidenced by this thread alone. It's all about the control of information being used to steer you away from what still makes the most sense: that the dude who expressed personal interest in the victim, who was the last known person to see her alive, who had the fire, and who cleaned up in his garage is the one who most likely killed her. And that's before we dive into the mountains of physical evidence.
     
    Martinn and GodShifter like this.
  3. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    It was the only computer in the house. Remember the phone call Barb Tadych had with SA and she said she didn’t have internet? That went on a while, and eventually she admitted that she did have it. Forensic analysis puts Bobby as the person who could have used the computer when it was used. All the torture and violent, as well as all the other pictures he had were when Bobby was using the computer.
     
    Martinn likes this.
  4. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    If you want to use Reddit as a source, check out “TickTockManitowoc” Lots of pertinent information about the whole history of all the facts about the 1985 case and the connection with the 2005 case. It’s eye opening.
     
    trumpet sounds and Martinn like this.
  5. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    Yeah, I follow them on Twitter, interesting stuff.
     
    trumpet sounds and rburly like this.
  6. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    Guess who is up for re-election in WI today - Scott Walker and AG Brad Schimel...
     
  7. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    I have no idea why anyone would vote for Schimel. But I say that about lots of politicians.
     
    Martinn likes this.
  8. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    My 12 pack is chilling, this election has this extra flavor to it...
     
    rburly likes this.
  9. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    Well, well...
     
  10. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    trumpet sounds and Martinn like this.
  11. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    rburly likes this.
  12. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Interesting that the victim's own family doesn't feel the same way. But I guess the viewers of a movie know best.
     
  13. Martinn

    Martinn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    It's not who knows best - the family is emotionally involved, for a lack of better description here. They want closure, they want the bad gay rotting in jail. That is understandable. But this whole case is a mess. Bad people all over, motives, involved parties, etc.
     
    rburly likes this.
  14. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    If the family wanted the bad guy to rot in jail, and they're not currently contesting the verdict against Steven Avery, then wouldn't the conclusion be that they have the closure they need? And if you want a mess, refer back the string of (constantly changing) conspiracy theories that have arisen in the wake of a faulty documentary, or the misinformation presented by others in this very thread, all of which has collectively made life harder for the very same family. And when you say "bad actors" do you mean the police? You do realize it's never actually been proven that Lenk and Colborn did anything wrong, yes?

    But by all means, buy into the idea that the dude with a shady search history is a more likely culprit than the dude with the sexual assault allegation, history of domestic violence, history of death threats, and history of cat murder, who requested the victim, blocked his number, had a fire that night, and cleaned up in his garage that night (again, this is before we get into the actual evidence). Geesh--if only the victim's family could see things the way the moviegoers do!
     
    GentleSenator and GodShifter like this.
  15. GodShifter

    GodShifter Son of the Morning Star®

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I watched both seasons and, despite Zellner’s hyper histrionics, came away with the same verdict: Avery is guilty. Zellner did a great job of selling herself and talking plausible b-s, but I still believe what I did after the first season: Avery did it and is right where he belongs.

    Thanks for coming out.
     
    tman53 and bopdd like this.
  16. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    still on my watch list!
     
  17. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 Black book/Grappling hook

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Did you guys watch "the confession tapes"? A Netflix doc show on false confessions.
     
    trumpet sounds and rburly like this.
  18. tman53

    tman53 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pa
    If you are basing your decision as to whether or not Avery is guilty solely on the documentary, you are fooling yourself.
     
  19. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    There’s so much written information that demonstrates his innocence. That’s the biggest source of information.
     
    trumpet sounds likes this.
  20. GodShifter

    GodShifter Son of the Morning Star®

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Conversely, there’s so much written information that demonstrates his guilt. As big of a source as to his innocence.

    Bottom line: NOTHING has been presented by Zellner that is a smoking gun. Conjuncture. Nothing more than that. Until something is presented that is conclusive to prove his innocence, I think he’s guilty.
     
    bopdd likes this.
  21. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    There’s plenty to prove his innocence. There’s nothing to prove his guilt. If the jury only hears Kratz conjecture, they can believe he killed her. The jury didn’t find Avery guilty of anything that had to do with the body because there was no evidence he did anything with the body. To not hear about how it couldn’t have been him in the first place was the miscarriage of justice.

    There’s no actual evidence that he killed her. The bullet had no blood nor bone on it. It had two types of wood. Her DNA was on the bullet, but far too much. It came from her chapstick that their investigators found. Her car was wiped of fingerprints. They found no fingerprints in or on the car. Avery’s blood is found only in the front part of the car, and in odd places. There was no mixing of his blood with hers anywhere. The key had been wiped clean and only DNA from Avery was found on it. It was her car. Why wouldn’t they find her DNA on the key that happened to show up after a third search of his trailer. The key had been wiped clean and Avery’s DNA planted. There’s also no such thing as sweat DNA. The investigators had Avery’s blood from a groin draw of blood. It goes on and on. The Kratz theory of what happened couldn’t have happened.

    When Avery gets a new trial, and I read that it couldn’t happen until late next year, at the earliest, it’ll be shown that he couldn’t have killed her. Then the State of Wisconsin will have to find the actual killer(s).
     
    trumpet sounds likes this.
  22. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Zellner truly thanks you for your bevy of half-baked information and misunderstanding of the initial trial proceedings. I think "nothing to prove his guilt" might be the catchphrase of the day, in that it literally implies that you don't grasp the baseline meaning of the word "prove". If you did, you'd realize that thus far his guilt is the only thing that's been proven, and everything surrounding his supposed innocence remains hypothetical. Until it's actually "proven" that he was framed, his guilt remains the only thing with actual evidence to support it.

    PS. I'm still waiting for you to own up to the previous misinformation you posted (which was pointed out beyond reproach), or is that just not how you roll?
     
    GodShifter likes this.
  23. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    You just keep thinking that Avery’s trial was what actually happened and you’ll be surprised when there’s a retrial and he walks out, again.

    I don’t know what misinformation you’re talking about, but spare anyone who reads your post.
     
    trumpet sounds likes this.
  24. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    You are familiar with the "reply" button, yes? And the misinformation I'm talking about is what you put in your post, which is indeed loaded with incomplete information (something bound to happen when you do nothing but regurgitate a deceptive documentary's talking points). I don't really understand what "spare anyone who reads your post" means, but okay.
     
    GodShifter likes this.
  25. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    You seem to be taking this way too personally. Maybe you and I should just agree to disagree and watch what happens with a new trial.
     
    Martinn and trumpet sounds like this.

Share This Page