Marvelettes Ultimate Collection question and Steve "mini-rant"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by quentincollins, Jun 13, 2003.

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  1. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    There were certainly situations where they issued one version and then re-cut/reissued another, but that's probably not what you are getting at. I'm not aware of them purposely mass producing more than one mix of the same song at the same time. The number of mixes a potential single got probably had something to do with the back and forth at the weekly quality control meetings. The QC group would sometime send producers/mixers back to the drawing (mixing?) board to have another whack at it. Check out the Deke Richards threads over at the Soulful Detroit forum for an entertaining blow by blow account (from his perspective) of the midwifing of the Supremes' "Love Child".

    Regards,
     
    Ken_McAlinden, Jun 16, 2003
    #51
  2. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    And, after what I would prefer, I keep gravitating to the Motown CDs before 1996.

    It IS tough geing a Motown fan!:D
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #52
  3. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Location:
    Overland Park, Kansas
    Grant,

    You need to suggest to Harry that we know someone who can master Motown 'right'.....

    Bob:D
     
    Bob Lovely, Jun 16, 2003
    #53
  4. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Well, yeah, but they have this Feinblatt fella on retainer and I hear he works cheap.

    Regards,
     
    Ken_McAlinden, Jun 16, 2003
    #54
  5. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Location:
    Overland Park, Kansas
    Hi Ken,

    Time for Motown to think beyond their usual 'box' and restore these loved recordings to their full splender. I believe that we need to suggest this to Motown....that full singles project that we all want so badly....

    Bob:)
     
    Bob Lovely, Jun 16, 2003
    #55
  6. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    Yes, I'd love to see a series of Motown singles boxes of the same scope and theme as the Stax/Volt boxes!
     
    tim_neely, Jun 16, 2003
    #56
  7. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    That would be a bit of an insult to him, as he is the producer. It would also be an insult to Shua Gur, Kevin Reeves, and the other Motown engineers.

    So as long as Erik Labson doesn't start doing them! He seems to have a thing for compressing and peak limiting the life out of the sound!
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #57
  8. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    On the other hand, do we want to do that? Before 1996, Motown was on the right track with getting those mono singles together when the stereo fanatics started complaining. When HW took over, or just before his time, they started pandering toward the stereo guys, and I believe it is why we never got a comprehensive mono Stevie Wonder collection. HW seems to be caught in the middle of the stereo/mono war.
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #58
  9. guy incognito

    guy incognito Senior Member

    Location:
    Mee-chigan
    And nice, tubey mastering, of course. :love:
     
    guy incognito, Jun 16, 2003
    #59
  10. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    They are seriously contemplating it. The emergence of SACD and DVD-A complicate matters somewhat.
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #60
  11. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Location:
    Overland Park, Kansas
    Grant,

    Quite the contrary for Harry. This would be his way of presenting the MONO singles in all their glory. LP's are one thing - singles another. This would be a vintage sound project for the sake of the singles....

    It cannot hurt to suggest - that is my point.

    Bob:)
     
    Bob Lovely, Jun 16, 2003
    #61
  12. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    If you want the Motown MONO singles in all thier glory, The "Hitsville" Box set is the only place to find them. I have that set, and I dont think its sounds bad. What dont you folks like about it?

    I'm really not a Motown guy, and I'd rather hear the stereo mixes of that material anyway.
     
    RetroSmith, Jun 16, 2003
    #62
  13. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Location:
    Overland Park, Kansas
    Mikey,

    Most of us love it! - but is is very incomplete and we want 'em all - the MONO single versions, that is. I love the sound on Hitsville USA....

    I enjoy a number of the Stereo mixes but they were not the versions that were played on the Radio and made these historical recording 'hits'. The Stereo versions were on Motown LP's that were not played on the Radio. I never purchased a Motown LP until the 70's - just MONO 45's....

    Bob:)
     
    Bob Lovely, Jun 16, 2003
    #63
  14. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    Serious Motown fans want to hear the mono singles.

    The Hitsville box isn't the only place to find the mono mixes in all their glory. I posted about this in the mostly ignored thread I made a couple of days ago about the CD series produced by Diana Reid Haig and engineered by Lee Hershberg, not to mention the various artists' boxed sets remastered by those like Bill Inglot and Joeseph Palmaccio..
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #64
  15. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    This is correct, Mikey. If you have the stereo mixes, you don't have the hits. But, as you say, you aren't really a Motown guy...
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #65
  16. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Actually, rather than pandering to either side, I think Harry has been trying to please both camps. The Ultimate Collections were brilliant in concept and almost brilliant in execution. They were designed to be the single disc source for the mono singles. They compared the tapes to the actual 45s, identified the correct versions, speed corrected as necessary to match the 45s, and then, sadly, lost the handle in the mastering stage of most of them.

    The 2-disc Anthologies were then altered in concept and became the stereo hits collections (as did the budget line 10-12 song collections). The box sets had a mix of both, but favored the mono "hit single mixes", and the album releases were stereo except for stuff that was previously re-channeled which was ususally taken "back to mono".

    In the specific case of Stevie Wonder, they had a somewhat different approach since he was more directly involved than most other artists in what compilations would be out there and what would be on them. The only way I think they dropped the ball (other than mastering issues) was
    not including the mono single mixes of the 60s stuff on the first disc of the "At the Close of a Century Box Set", but I don't know what went into that decision.

    Regards,
     
    Ken_McAlinden, Jun 16, 2003
    #66
  17. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    But, many of the hits were remixed to stereo, or are alternate mixes on many of the newer sets. It's now too bad for those wanting all the hits on one package.

    In think they just wanted to keep things consistient with the stereo/mono thing.

    Motown has absolute control over all Wonder stuff up until 1971.
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #67
  18. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Okay, but do you think they would veto a request from the guy who has "absolute control" of everything from Music of My Mind forward? :) I believe it's more an issue of owning the masters versus "absolute control", anyway. They simply aren't going to release any new Stevie compilations that he would not want them to release.

    Regards,
     
    Ken_McAlinden, Jun 16, 2003
    #68
  19. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    I was careful about saying "stereo" without saying "original stereo" or "album mixes". On the album releases themselves, they don't genereally do remixes, but on bonus tracks and compilations/anthologies, they do.
     
    Ken_McAlinden, Jun 16, 2003
    #69
  20. MrPeabody

    MrPeabody New Member

    Location:
    Mass.
    If it's mono stuff you're after, you need to watch the recent Motown UK CD releases.

    Many of their Motown comp series (Soul Satisfaction, Motown Connoisseurs, etc.) contain lots of both rare and hit mono mixes (along with some stereo), and largely un-EQd transfers at that. "Cellarful of Motown" was sorta the tip of the iceberg. There's more out there where that came from. For any of those Motown UK comps, you can't assume they're all stereo.
     
    MrPeabody, Jun 16, 2003
    #70
  21. ClausH

    ClausH Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    I totally agree. The U.K. two-fers are great as well.
     
    ClausH, Jun 16, 2003
    #71
  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    Well, they don't need Stevie's approval for doing anything with the material he recorded before 1971, nor does Stevie own or posess any of the stuff before 1971.
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #72
  23. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    And in the case of the recent Four Tops import, the compilation is labeled as using the hit single mixes. The only complaint I have with it is that it excludes "Are You Man Enough", which was a major single after "Ain't No Woman (Like The One I've Got)".
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #73
  24. CM Wolff

    CM Wolff Senior Member

    Location:
    Motown
    Grant, I think Ken is getting at that regardless of whether they legally needed Stevie's approval, they would honor his requests. Stevie sounds like he is active in regards to these compilations, even occasionally vetoing song selection for periods pre-1971 (e.g. HW explained that this is why "Hey Love" is on the Definitive Collection instead of "Blame it on the Sun").
     
    CM Wolff, Jun 16, 2003
    #74
  25. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Location:
    Southwestern United States
    OK then. I do seem to recall that bit of info now. I remember a few people were quite upset over that.
     
    Grant, Jun 16, 2003
    #75
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