DCC Archive Michael Jackson remasters

I agree Michael has gone downhill lately as well. His best work, IMO, is the work with the Jackson Five and his early solo work he recorded for Motown and lots of the songs from the "Off The Wall" album although I do agree that "Heal The World" and "Will You Be There" have great messages.

[ September 30, 2001: Message edited by: Bradley Olson ]

 

1. I still think his stuff is garbage. To each his own. And I still think his salary set off an awful lot of cost-cutting (and band-dropping) at Sony. They probably realized they'd never make a penny off of the deal as soon as the ink dried.

2. Speaking of indie movies, check out "Shadow Magic" about the introduction of cinema to Peking in 1902. Wonderful, wonderful flick that will appeal to gearheads like us - the main Chinese character in it would have bought ALL of the DCC discs had he been around today.

3. It never even OCCURED to me to go see "Pearl Harbor".....

 

Even though some of Michael's stuff has great messages, I think the majority his stuff is garbage as well. It never occured to me to want to see Pearl Harbor either, Tim.

 

Everybody, I think it's a matter of opinion.

I think the reason most people are down on "Dangerous" and the new stuff is because the music is more hip-hop, and there are a lot of people who have problems with hip-hop. In this same forum I also had reservations about "Dangerous" but then I went back and listened to it again. It's not a bad album (no pun intended) and the only song I don't like is "Jam". It's just DIFFERENT than what he did before. That's all. Same goes for the second disc of "HIStory", it's just DIFFERENT, more hip-hopish.

So, guys, is it *really* the album/music you don't like, or is it just the fact that it is hip-hop?

And Bradley, I think his best album is "Off The Wall" on Epic. Try it out.

[ October 01, 2001: Message edited by: Grant T. ]

 

Nope, got nothing against hip-hop. My problem is that it comes off as just too calculated, less of an inspiration and more of a marketing ploy. New Jack Swing was big (remember Bobby Brown?) and I think he was trying to play off that. I don't think it's real good, but I wouldn't call it garbage either (there's plenty of music that's much worse).

I do have a good memory of the music videos for "Remember the Time" and "Black & White," especially the latter because the next school day, people were mighty impressed with the face-morphing sequence, but that has little to do with the music. Reminds me of a joke Chris Rock once said at the MTV Video Awards. "It doesn't matter if the songs sucks. Tonight, it's the video that counts."

 

I picked up the "Thriller" remaster. The sound is super, but it goes back to a complaint I've had for years. Sure, Bernie Grundman did a super job, BUT he was the ORIGINAL mastering engineer. Why did we have to wait nearly 20 years to get the CD like it SHOULD have sounded then? Same guy, same tape...same idea trying to get people to stop buying albums and switch to the new thing like they are doing now with DVD's, etc. Just puzzled.

 

Better converters. Grundman may have NOT have had the original tapes the first time. Remember that "Thriller" was originally released as Lp and cassette FIRST. The CD was just being introduced when "Thriller" was released. Not a lot of engineers knew how to use digital back then. Sony, Mitsubishi, 3M, and other companies used to send out trainers to studios to train people to use it. Companies just saw it all as a new cash cow and threw remastering projects to house engineers. "Grab that stack of tapes there and digitize them. Have 'em done by the end of the week. Time is money. Just make it sound good. Do what you can. See ya!" Little regard was given to exactly what tapes were used, if they could be found at all.

Steve knows a bit more about this than I do. He worked at MCA during those days.

 

I definitely agree that the remasters of "Thriller" and especially "Off The Wall" sound excellent. They both have all of the ambient sonics that have been missing from subsequent LP pressings and CD reissues. Bernie Grundman really nailed it. I don't know if anyone else has ever noticed but on "Off The Wall" the initial LP pressings had slightly different mixes of "Rock With You"(hand claps and rebalanced guitars on the remix) and "Get On The Floor", than the more common later pressings of the album. The differences between the first run vinyl of "Thriller" and CD reissues is stunning. Because CBS was more concerned with keeping up with public demand for the album, they used the stampers way longer than they should have. The majority of copies after the first pressing don't sound nearly as dynamic and lots of them were shipped defective. That crispness and clarity is back on the new reissue. The remasters of "Bad" and "Dangerous" sound great but the difference is less noticeable since both albums were recorded digitally for the most part. One thing all of these albums have in common is that they really show off Bruce Swedien's incredible engineering talents.

 

Oh yeah, that's been one of my bitching points, that the original mixes of "Rock With You" and "Get On The Floor" have not been used since 1979. I'm also shocked by how many people old enough to remember the first time the album was out don't notice the switcheroo. But, I don't think it was CBS's fault. I think it was Jacko himself who ordered the change, just like the cover for "Off The Wall". Only the initial run of the "Off The Wall" CD has the original cover. I have it and I'm keeping it!

Question, I have not picked up the remaster of "Bad" yet. Does it have the original mix of "The Way You Make Me Feel" or did Michael order the single mix to be used as well? The original LP mix had Miichael's vocal way back in the mix, the way *I* like it. The song was remixed so it would sound up front on radio and TV speakers. The remix appeared on the HIStory collection.

I'm hanging on to my original pressing of "Bad" and have made a CD-R of "Off The Wall" with the original mixes of those two songs inserted.

BTW, I understand that there is supposed to be some tape slowdown on "Baby Be Mine" on the "Thriller" remaster. That is why I have not bought it yet either.

The only one I have bought is "Off The Wall" and the sound is very smooth, but I detect slight compression and/or limiting.

 

Grant, I didn't notice a tape slowdown on "Baby Be Mine" on the new "Thriller" CD, I'll have to look for that. From what I understand the reason why Michael had the mixes of "Rock With You" and "Get On The Floor" changed on re-pressings of "Off The Wall" was that Bruce Swedien, as well as doing mixes for the album, he did separate mixes for the 45 releases, as he did with many Quincy Jones productions he worked on. Most of the differences are slight changes in the balancing. On those two OTW tracks you can tell the difference immediately, "Rock With You" is a lot punchier sounding, and "Get On The Floor" is slightly faster on the remix. Jackson preferred the remixes of those two songs and had them replace the originals on all future pressings. I didn't realize there was a difference in the vinyl LP and CD mixes of "The Way You Make Me Feel". I'll have to pull out my vinyl and have a listen.
As far as the CD cover art for "Off The Wall", last year Sony in the UK did a special digipak and regular issue with the original artwork restored. Brown skinned Michael after the first nose job, I couldn't believe it!!!!

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff H. ]

 

I think the makup is to cover up a skin disease he has.

Hold on....

here 'tis, courtesy google.com:

http://www.mjifc.com/mjfaq.html?recnum=52

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Holy Zoo ]

 

Jeff, the slowdown occurs at 3:31 on my copy of the Thriller remaster.

Kym

 

Jeff H.,

No, the mixes of "The Way you Make Me Feel" differ between the original pressings of the LP AND CD, and the "HIStory" CD.

Also, the differences between the original and remixed versions of "Rock With You" and "Get On The Floor" are much more than just differences in balancing. If you have the original LP, cassette, or (heh!) 8-track tape you'll see what I mean.

Anyone notice if they used the single mix of "Wanna Be Starting Something" or "HUman Nature" on "Thriller"? If they did, it would be a very good reason NOT to get rid of the original CDs.

I'll just say that as far as i'm concerned, the Michael Jackson CD reissue program is screwed up.

And, while I haven't heard the other three remasters, the sound of "Off The Wall" is good but something's just not "right".

 

Grant, I listened to my vinyl copy of "Bad" and the thing I noticed is how compressed the whole album sounds compared to the CD version. "The Way You Make Me Feel" as well as the rest of the tracks on vinyl don't have the same "in your face" quality or the digital harshness of the CD. Regarding the single versions of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" and "Human Nature", WBSS has a few minor mix differences but the major difference is that it is an edit, clocking in at 4:15 rather than the album version that is 6:02. The single version of "Human Nature" with the brief synthesizer solo in the middle to my knowledge has never been released on CD and only exists on the original 45.

 

Yes, I remember that Oprah interview when I was a kid, but that's not what I'm referring to. Take a close look at some recent pictures. It almost looks like he's wearing lipstick and eyeliner.

Hmmm...maybe he's trying some new glam look

 

No, no! That's not what I meant. I'm not talking about the sound quality. I'm talking about the MIXES. "The Way You Make Me Feel" on the original LP AND CD was mixed differently, with Michael's vocal back in the mix. The mix on "HIStory" has his vocal punched up about 3db and the whole track sounds more "in your face" than on the original pressings of the CD AND LP. I'm trying to determine if the new remaster has the different mix.

I guess I have you at a disadvantage here because you don't seem to have the original pressing of the "Bad" CD or "HIStory". BTW, you do know that the "Bad" album was digitally recorded on a Mitsubishi DASH, which are no longer made. I'm wondering now if Sony used analog backup copies or resampled the original digital tapes.

 

Grant, I do actually own the first edition CD's of "Bad" and "HIStory", and the tracks from the original CD definitely don't sound have that same digital brittleness as the newer reissue. Particularly, "The Way You Make Me Feel" and "Man In The Mirror" exhibit this quality on the new reissue and on the "HIStory" compilation. I'm willing to bet that "Bad" was probably mastered from either a digital backup or analog safety. There are probably not too many Mitsubishi Digital machines still in use out there.