MM Cart suggestions for VPI Prime/Chinook?

Hi Guys...some of you will recognize my posts regarding cartridges. The hard issue is you really can't listen to them first, and I'm finding it's awfully expensive to buy one, not like it and then sell it here at a loss. But I'm probably a popular guy with the buyers! Sorry buyers, but it's time to just admit I don't know what I'm doing and see what you all think...and then hopefully be done with the next one for now.

My favorite by far has been the AT MLX 150. All I can say about how it sounds to me is that it's "fun" to listen to, and was not fatiguing. It appears to pick up everything and I'm amazed at the cost. Others I have tried and sold off: The EV33 and ART 9, both M/C's...I'm starting to think I'm not a moving cartridge guy, if that's a "thing". Neither were exciting or fun to listen to, though I know they are highly regarded here. I did not allow either to break in over 20 hours, so maybe it's on me. Comments appreciated. I also tried an Ortofon Black and agree with the majority that it just brings out the flaws in one's records too much. And I had sibilance issues galore. Maybe I didn't install it correctly...I'm much better at it now after seeing the wonderfully done VPI tutorial. The 440mla was another I liked in general, but it wasn't refined and a tad bright, as others have said, but amazing for the price. I just got the replacement for the MLX150, the sa. I liked it out of the box, and I know this may be a break in issue, but I have had two three hours sessions with it and my ears are literally hurting from the brightness, though I like the characteristics of the sound. I do prefer a slightly bright sound, but only barely so. I don't like a dull sound at all! I would like lush vocals and an excellent soundstage above all.

I am using a VPI Prime, a Chinook pre and an Krell amp going to Thiel 3.6 speakers. I could be talked into a MC cart, I suppose, but I would want a higher output type. I have a faint hum going on that I can't resolve, I've tried everything suggested, and it is far more pronounced with an MC cart of course. It's barely discernable with a MM as I only have to turn up the volume a quarter of the way with the higher output.

I know I'm going to get the phone book here but I'm sure one or two carts will get repeated recommendations. I would like to spend no more than $2000. I'm amazed I seem to prefer the sound on lower priced carts, but my assumption is I haven't gone high enough to really hear a big difference. Thanks guys, as always!

 

First, maybe load those AT carts down a little. Also, try a Denon DL-110 and an AT95SA. Those will not be bright.

 

I haven't ever worked with Upscale Audio, but the guy there has featured the Chinook and VPI tables several times in the past. With the way he speaks about gear, I think he could give you a fairly educated short list based on your other gear and preferences. Might be worth looking up. No affiliation, I've just seen his videos and he came to mind when you I saw Chinook and VPI together.

 

Might not hurt to contact VPI and ask the question regarding your equipment profile, just a thought, and go from there.

 

1. Post your question here
2. Cartridge per your recommendations Shure M97xe with a LP Gear Vivid line stylus or Jico Neo SAS stylus.

The stock Shure M97XE may be too mellow for your tastes, but with the addition of one of the above you should be fine. I would go for the Jico Neo SAS and get a Vivid line later as it is a bit more mellow than the Jico. Neither are what I would call bright.

M~

 

Hana SL, fun and detail. not harsh

 

You can click on the cartridges link and see what VPI likes. No mention ( I don't think) of the phono stage used.

VPI Industries | Turntables Made in USA

 

Hana SH same deal. Loads of fun. Can’t wait to upgrade phono stage.

 

Sorry to hear you're experiencing a hum. Any idea what is causing it, specifically? How much troubleshooting have you done on this problem? Hum is such a frustrating problem...

As for suggestions, although I don't have experience with this model, I've seen loads of people quite satisfied with a Dynavector 10X5 which is a HOMC cart that you might want to look into.

 

Your link doesn't work.

 

I would consider a Grado Reference V2 Reference or Grado Reference V2 Statement at $1,500 each. The latter is one of the VPI selected cartridges. Grado is well-known to have excellent to exceptional midrange. Some say the upper-end is rolled off, but I truly believe that to be an exaggeration. Of course, everyone is different in what they enjoy and what qualities a cartridge should have to satisfy their level of musical enjoyment.

 

Before you spend money on ANY cart, I would try and work on getting the hum situation solved.

 

And maybe try to tame the brightness a bit too, if feasible. Sometimes a bit of VTA change, some minor speaker position adjustments, maybe some small room treatments, a little change in cartridge loading as mentioned upthread (might require some loading plugs)...

 

Unfortunately, those are oftentimes tough issues to troubleshoot. In some cases, people never solve them.

I agree it'd be best, plus it'd open doors as far as choices go, too.

 

Did you try going slightly tail down on vta?

 

I'm a big fan of Sumiko cartridges. Currently a Blackbird but that was preceded by a Blue Point EVO III. Both are HO MC's. Great trackers, detailed and robust sounding. The manual Sumiko supplies has a great set up guide as well..

 

Personally I would recommend trying a Grado Black. That will tell you whether you like the grado sound without spending very much money. If you generally like the sound, but want some more refinement, then just start looking higher in their product line.

There is nothing wrong with preferring MM carts. Our host has said that he prefers MMs over MCs. Although I personally fall on the other side of the camp. But loading is critical. Perhaps you are not loading down your MCs enough. I find that most of mine have preferred between a 100 and a 150 Ohm load.

Another option is just to talk to an expert like Kevin Deal. I believe that he will do his best to try to set you up for success.

 

And that's pretty much what I prefer I well.

Unfortunately my Oracle doesn't play nice with Grado (hum). If I had known that prior to buying the TT I would have looked at another table. I live in the midrange and to me Grado is gold. I'm using a Dynavector DV20X2L, which I like. Not overly harsh, good tracker and the mids are more than acceptable. I wanna try one of the Soundsmith cartridges next.

 

I’m using a Soundsmith Zephyr III with my Classic/Chinook combo and highly recommend it. Music Direct and Elusive Disc were offered gift a discount the last time I checked.

 

I find the Denon DL-110 to be fairly bright. I don't think it is a "warm" cartridge by any means. If I had to guess (I lost the piece of paper with the frequency response on it), I'd say it is a pretty neutral cart.

 

Observations-
You have an enviable analog setup. Yet it appears you're not enjoying it. There's synergy in that VPI/Chinook combo.
A crime you've not allowed the MCs to break in. A fine setup like yours is crying for a good MC (e.g. Lyra Delos).
The Chinook is extremely quiet.
Agree with others you really need to fix that hum problem- a symptom your setup is not optimized.
And nurture some patience. Refrain from giving up too soon on cartridges. Relax and enjoy the music, have fun, not so analytical...
My opinions of course...

 

Thank you...great suggestion!

 

I was considering Grado as they seem to have a very rich heritage, but I just didn't know what model to get. Thank you!

 

I did an enormous amount of trouble shooting and much credit for getting rid of most of it goes to a lot of people here who kept pointing me towards different possibilities. I honestly think I've exhausted all possible remedies and really, at this point it isn't audible during listening and that's a long ways from where I started. Like someone else said, I think in the house I live in it's as good as it will get. I'm grateful to everyone who helped me a few months ago.