Most rappers are lying about their money

Very nice . . . very nice.

 

Sorry you feel bullied. I'm done too.

 

I recall someone posting how rock is lame these days because rock stars aren't driving their limos into swimming pools. Basically, his objection was that these new crop of rockers aren't obnoxious, rich braggarts that act like their $hit doesn't stink. That thought process is really something else. It's like they're stuck in an 80s Motley Crue video. Man, even the Crue has moved on. Tommy Lee joined PETA and Mick Mars is 62 years old.

But let a rapper talk about gold chains and big car rims, heaven forbid. We all know how pop culture is about humility. I once had to endure someone who went on a rant in a meeting about materialism in hiphop culture. The guy was wearing a bespoke suit that cost something like $10,000, crocodile boots and a diamond pinky ring. Here's a guy dressed like a James Bond villian going on about materialism. That was almost too much to tolerate, but I bit my tongue.

People like glamour and expensive things, it's just expressed in different ways. With that difference in expression, some of it will be deemed acceptable, while some of it won't be depending on who you're talking to. It's why someone can post something like post #61 "Why is it virtually all rap stars have no automotive fashion sense? Or common sense? Twenty-four inch "rimz" on a Bentley...makes the sweet baby Jesus cry." as if their tastes dictate the tastes of people who happen to like that kind of "automotive fashion sense". How does he even know about the tastes of virtually all rap stars anyway? I guess it's all just a giant monolith. They're virtually all like that, he knows.

Anyway, when you pull it back and look at it without pretenses, you'll realize that people are generally attracted to the trappings of wealth and/or success, and if they don't have it, then they live vicariously through people that do. It's just expressed differently. And in that difference, they will categorize the different expressions as one that is classy and representing elegance, while the other is gauche, tacky and gaudy. I won't argue for or against that opinion, just pointing it out. We as a society do it all the time, and I'm not excluding myself either. You can live in excess, just don't flaunt it or be extravagant is the message. Be "elegant" about it. Excess is always idealized when it's dressed up in a suit. Believe me, at that level it's all about excess. It's just different. Wear a Patek watch, not a blinged out chain and medallion is what is implied. Talk about Savile Row suits and custom anything that cost an arm and a leg is more than welcome. Don't defile expensive cars with your tacky tastes. Don't you dare put those gaudy rims on a Bentley. It's not an Escalade you brute. Can't you be "tasteful"? - Somewhere along the line, no one told them that they weren't the tastemakers for everyone.

Let me tell you about elegant excess. Look at the Rat Pack. Apart from being talented, part of the allure of the Rat Pack was their image. Their image is what a lot of middle-aged, boring, milquetoast guys dream about, but will never be. They wanted to be them. They were cool, sharply dressed guys in expensive suits, jetsetting all over the place, living the life, having fun, drinking fine scotch, beating off women with a stick etc. They had a playboy aesthetic, which is the definition of having it all. The allure is still there to this day. Even if their talent was the same, I guarantee you that the allure of the Rat Pack would not be there if they were farm boys dressed in overalls, talking about farming and milking cows.

In their communities, Mainstream "bling rappers" are the Rat Pack. Not here to say whether that's good or bad, but that's how it is for some people. Outsiders that know little about rap are talking about them, even if it is with condemnation and harsh judgment of how they are expressing themselves. They aren't talking about rappers like Common, Talib Kweli or Lupe Fiasco, because they are the symbolic farm boys dressed in overalls. It's far more interesting to talk about bling, 24 inch rims, money etc, especially by people who don't have a clue about anything they are talking about.

In a sense, I don't mind it, just for the simple fact that the in-your-face extravagance of the bling rappers annoys fuddy-duddies. Go on and put those 24 inch rims on that Bentley I say. Besmirch everything while you still can. The self appointed gatekeepers and tastemakers can get bent for all I care. Defile what they hold sacred. Show irreverence for it. Quite frankly, it doesn't get more rock n roll than that. Gucci Mane is the ultimate rock star.

 

Exactly!

I think the rap haters are really saying that rappers don't have a right to be wealthy because they don't approve of their music, culture, or class of people.

Your post is so good and on target that i'm going to copy it because I think this thread isn't going to last much longer.

 

I like this post, but can't endorse it fully. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I don't care about your lyrical content or image, I care about how you rhyme words together and your beats. So the Gucci Mans and Soulja Boys don't get a free pass from me.

If you want rap about balling out of control, fine. Just do it like Jay-Z on "Imaginary Player". You want to talk about killing people, cool with me. Do it with the style of Kool G Rap on "One Dark Night" and countless others. You want to spin tales about moving kilos of cocaine, awesome. Study Nas, AZ, Biggie, and Mobb Deep circa 96-97.

 

I agree with you. I'm not a fan of anything about Gucci Mane and he's an awful rapper. I wasn't endorsing him as an emcee. I was just talking about him aesthetically based on what some people here on this forum have said about how rock stars should act. Based on their criteria, Gucci Mane is the ultimate rock star. I mean, he tattooed an ice-cream cone on his face.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hood rich

 

Don't you know over half of America lives beyond its means? It's the American way. Wrong to put it off on rappers.

 

Agreed, but materialism is main theme in a lot of these rap tunes. Hip Hop had more meaning when it was just about life in the hood and gang warfare. Nas sent shockwaves when he said it was dead.

 

OMG I lost my sh*+ when you said "James Bond villain". HILARIOUS!

On a a side note, I think most people feel that most rap has an element of crime about it, so when rappers are bragging about their wealth, people automatically assume they performed crimes to get that wealth. I think they also feel that when rappers are bragging about their b*tches/hoes, it means they have a ton of women around that are going to get knocked up and produce gangbangers. It's just how a lot of society views them and they haven't done much to correct the image.

 

Rap has firmly moved into the middle class just as much of Black America has. And, the truth is, in the late 80s and early 90s when all those "gangstas" were rapping about the 'hood, White youth were mostly buying most of it. The record labels nudged the rappers to do it so they could watch the money roll in, all while it was giving minorities in the underclass a worse image with mainstream America. And, White America didn't really care about urban drugs and violence until it started to affect White kids, and they saw rap music as the problem.

 

50 Cent was pretty small time. Jay-Z may have slung some crack, but that's not what got him part ownership of the Nets. Then, of course, there are the "studio gangstaz."

It's important to note that the record company executives had a BIG hand in crafting these images. Some rappers came from fairly comfortable backgrounds, then suddenly they're presented as being from the hood and flashing gang symbols.

 

Which is all fine and dandy, except it breeds copycat behavior from less fortunate people who don't have the knowledge that it's all pretend.

 

Exactly! And, the rest of America decided the rappers were the problem when it was really the label executives they have been directing their anger towards whole time. But, it's much more convenient to bash the rappers and their music.

 

To be fair, the rappers are half the problem as they're the ones that go along with it. They should take at least some responsibility for cultivating that image when they know what type of message it sends to their audience who may not know any better.

On the topic of rap, btw, here's a fun, clean rap song I've been enjoying all day:



These guys seem to have a very sizable audience without being criminally oriented.

 

Black America still doesn't care about drugs and violence. Unless of course said violence is perpetrated by White America. Yeah, I said it.

 

Unfortunately, according to some people, there are.

 

Arturo Gomez Cruz did that in Miami in 1996.
Arturo is now a jazz programmer somewhere in Colorado, at that time he had the first hip-hop radio show in Miami as the "Rhythm Rocker" on WDNA. When all that east-west stuff was happening and Biggie and Tupac were killed, Arturo delcared it "dead". A week later on the air anounced he was selling off his hip-hop collection at the store in a midnight sale and he did. To me it died as well, it lost it's intelegence and wit. Give me Hieroglyphics, BDP, PE, Tribe Called Quest, and Wu Tang anyday. Now it's all about the dollars, dissing, and typical thuggery.

You can brag all you want about your Bentley with the 22" rims.
When the hits dry out after your fans cry "sell out" and you lose your street cred, then the tax man comes a-knockin' for his cut and later you're broke. Uncle sam is going to take that Bentley, enjoy it while you can.
The only ones who are rich in rap are the guys who own the labels.

 

To be fair, even that story has taken on mythic proportions. Pete Townshend was actually present when Keith Moon committed the famous act, and recounted it in his recent autobiography. The vehicle was much more modest than a limo, and it wasn't done deliberately and it intended as a display of rock star excess. Anybody else who did it since was a copycat.

 

Oh yeah! There's a lot of Americas, at least here in the U.S.. Rich, poor, white, black, Latino, liberal, conservative, religious, non religious, gay, straight... There is no one main point of view. There is no main culture. If there was, do you think we'd have half the arguments on this forum as we do? The divide between all of these groups is widening more every day. There is a sensible minority that wants to come together, but they are increasingly being drowned out by the extremists on all sides.

 

Sure, this is true. Some rap is woven with criminality lyrically, but what people choose to assume is their problem. I look at it as what it is; entertainment, exaggeration, embellishments, fantasies and tall tales. My stance on this doesn't change even if the rapper says they're rapping about their environment.

That's just a leap that people are making and these are their issues coming to the forefront. The dominant male culture here is based on lusting for and bedding women. The more the better. Men don't watch the lingerie bowl for a good football game. Men didn't look up to Hugh Hefner because he's so interesting. It's his image and the bevy of beautiful women around him, seemingly at his disposal. This is what many men gravitate towards and if they can't live that way, they live vicariously through the men who live like that. James Bond had that playboy image. He is suave and part of his appeal is his virility and sexual prowess. When it's not the men that are idolized, then it's all the lad mags like Maxim, FHM etc. Those mags wouldn't be what they are without the bevy of scantily clad women in them. It's what we are fed, but like I mentioned earlier, when it's dressed up to be more palatable to the mainstream, people don't bat an eye to it. Things seem more offensive when it's direct and in your face. This is rap. Rap has no subtleties. People aren't really used to life without subtleties. It's direct and doesn't mince words. It's unapologetically in your face. There is no facade of pleasantries.

I remember a columnist, whose name escapes me that loved to rag on 2 Live Crew back in the day for their misogynistic image. A few days after going on one of his tirades on tv, this same guy went on about how James Bond (gosh, I've mentioned Bond a lot) movies are perfect in every way, and how 007 is sophisticated and that he's a casanova and a true gentleman. He sang the praises of Sean Connery as Bond. Any sane person can't watch the older James Bond movies and not see the clear misogyny in them. 007 was slapping women left and right, and they were his mere sexual play things.



Despite this, many will be more upset about 2 Live Crew than James Bond. At least 2 Live Crew didn't beat women. Some people did raise a stink about Bond (Connery in particular. The recent Bond isn't quite the ladies man and woman beater like in the Connery days), but their numbers were small, and many people still consider Connery to be the best Bond. I bet those people watch the movies and are fine with his image, but will have a problem with a rap being misogynistic. People pick and choose their battles, and if they don't like something, then the offense is inflated. Likewise, if they like something, then it is downplayed. Keep in mind, this isn't an excuse or defense for misogyny in some rap. Just mere observations.

When Motley Crue sang "Girls, Girls, Girls" or when Warrant sang "Cherry Pie", no one made the leap that they would be knocking up a bunch of women and producing gangbangers. Those were just a bunch of young guys having a good time, singing about hot girls. Why can't that same courtesy be extended to rappers without the baggage of them having to explain that they aren't reproducing gangbanging children to satiate people who clearly don't like anything about them?

Furthermore, why should it be the job of rappers to convey their humanity & decency towards the naysayers that they aren't creating gangbanging progeny? How would they even go about that? "Excuse me mainstream America, I rap about b*tches and hoes, but all my children are in private school. They aren't bloods and crips. Accept me now." This is an expectation that isn't required from anyone else, and it assumes that the opinions of the naysayers is something that should be put on a pedestal since rappers have to prove the worthiness of their character to them. Rappers don't care (and they shouldn't) about the society that thinks of them negatively because the feeling is mutual. Why should they care? It's irrelevant really, because if someones needs a rapper to explain that he's not creating little gangbangers or that he's just a bloke who can string words together in harmony, then that person definitely has deeper issues that they should probably address, and the rapper isn't the one who should fix it.

When there is talk about different Americas, this is a manifestation of it. How can it not be?

 

James Bond is not associated with an element of crime. Guns n Roses is not associated with crime, welfare, poverty, etc. Rap and the people who listen to rap are. That's the difference. It's two different cultures or a perception of two different cultures. I'm not passing judgment - that's just how it is.

 

I think the dislike of rap is a lot simpler to explain: Rap is monotonous. That's why many lovers of other music genres don't like it. Unlike other genres that have melody in the singing, there's nothing to listen to but the words. When the words are fun and clever it is enjoyable, but many people tire quickly of hearing the same crude boasting over and over and over again, so they complain. Maybe it's a race issue in the US, I don't know. I can only tell it the way I see from outside America.