Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I think most who prefer the 33s like them for their punchier sound. The 45s tend to sound more natural.
     
  2. Lucca90

    Lucca90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SouthAmerica
    I have the 33 rpm version and it is a bit noisy. The 45 rpm should be here in a week. I can post a small sound clip for comparison purposes if you can wait otherwise I don't know what's the consensus jere about SQ .
     
  3. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Listening currently to indestructible 45
    At least with indestructible (currently NP), the dynamics on the 45’s are killer, the contrast and range just can’t be beat. Especially on a Blakey record the sound can really explode out of the speakers, the dynamic peaks can be so freaking big, just gotta love it! But I also love my 33’s and they offer a certain punchiness and energy that can make you feel like they are right there. I’m at a point personally where I don’t really care too much about 33 vs 45 for MM as they’ve all been quality and as long as I dig the music I’m happy.
     
  4. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    A quick question: I come across a couple eBay auctions claiming to be MM pressings that do not have the blue Music Matters hyper sticker on the outer sleeve, but instead have the 75 Blue Note sticker, like this one below:
    [​IMG]

    Can anyone confirm if this ever happened before?
     
  5. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    It didn’t. Those listings are wrong.
     
  6. Shpongle

    Shpongle Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    There were a whole load of Blue Note albums reissued to celebrate 75th Anniversary of Blue Note. Mixed reviews on them....but they are nothing to do with Music Matters and the quality of them falls way short of the MM pressings which should be reflected in the price.
     
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  7. asindc

    asindc Jazzy Cyclist

    The 75th Annivesary series was also mastered from digital files, unlike the MM series.
     
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  8. BendBound

    BendBound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Mostly, not all. One would require a deep dive internet search to ferret out which are tape sourced. Otherwise, you are correct, they were digital sourced.

    Universal Music Group began to archive Blue Note master tape a few years ago. Due to the age and condition of the tape, they wanted to store them in a place and in such as way as to save them from further deterioration, as much as possible. They made high quality digital copies for use by reissue houses from that point on. For example, Heavenly Sweetness uses high quality digital "masters". Scorpio, whose vinyl releases have been called RINOs (records in name only), used CD quality digital masters, as provided by Blue Note.

    I am not privy, but some use of second generation master tape may be available for certain reissue houses, even now. Folks here my be able to shed light on this. Music Matters was the last reissue house permitted to use master tape, as far as I know. AP also used master tape. Most vintage Japanese reissues used second generation master tape. I think Mosaic and Classic used master tape, likely second generation in the case of Classic.

    One of the reasons MM was permitted to use master tape, in my opinion, is because of the absolute care they took with it, and because most of the tape was in Southern California at the time. But Ron Rambach was an archivist in the truest sense. Not only did he treat the tape with absolute reverence, he slowly and methodically worked through the extant master tape library at Blue Note, cataloging as he went and evaluating all of the suitable titles for reissue. A number of late 1950s classic BN titles were not released by MM because MM discovered the tape to be too far deteriorated. A notable example is Sonny Clark's classic date BLP 1579. Moreover, the lps MM reissued are definitive statements of what is possible.

    I do not know this, just pure speculation, but I believe the work of AP and MM and what they discovered created the impetus for BN to go to the pains to archive the master tape in a "better place and better way."

    I'm still waiting for MM to put some rabbit out of the hat. My Christmas wish.
     
    nosliw, Fender Relic, Stu02 and 3 others like this.
  9. asindc

    asindc Jazzy Cyclist

    When I refer to the 75th Anniversary Series, I’m referring to the album series issued directly by Blue Note themselves, not 3rd party issuers. Don Was was unequivical in stating that BN wanted to offer an affordable option to those who couldn’t or didn’t want to buy the MM or AP reissues: Rarities and Reissues: Blue Note Records Turns 75
     
    Madlove likes this.
  10. Michel Jazz

    Michel Jazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    When speaking of the BLP 1579, how can you explain that Kevin Gray used the 'original tapes' for the Diskunion Mono series ? But I heard the same thing about the BLP 1581 ; ...original tape is not good enough to re-issue a Musicmatters album. But Kevin Gray used that tape anyway to make a re-issue for the Diskunion Mono series. Both albums sounds really really good. No clue of deteriorated tape on vinyl... ;-)
    If there's an album they shouldn't re-issue it was the BST4001... sounds gorgeous in moments, but a few songs have rather anoying parts.. (on MusicMatters that is )
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
    AaronW likes this.
  11. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Speaking of Disk Union Jazz releases, does their webstore allow international orders?
     
  12. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    The diskunion stuff (Japan?) should be all 2nd or more generation tape. If you think about it, there is no way blue note/universal music group would ever ship original master tape across sea. Music matters due to location, insurance policy, and also Kevin's studio may literally be blocks away from where the tape is stored allowed them to use True original tape.
     
  13. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    But disk union didn’t get any tapes shipped to Japan. The label sent them to Kevin Gray, and he sent the lacquers to Kansas to be cut by QRP.
     
    2xUeL, AaronW, SAMAUL and 2 others like this.
  14. Michel Jazz

    Michel Jazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Because a whole lot of questions concerning the source that Kevin Gray used for the Diskunion Mono series he once answered this by saying that the sources are truly the original RVG mono Blue Note tapes.
     
    Bryce, 2xUeL and recstar24 like this.
  15. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    The blue note 75s were my intro to blue note. They could be had cheaply (I mostly bought at $10-$15 each) and while quality of vinyl could range from perfect to all effed up, the mastering was good. If I recall, their goal was for these issues to sound as closely to the original vinyl releases as possible, whereas Music Matters goal was to make the music sound as real, as great as they could be, regardless of what the original vinyl mastering would’ve been. So along the way, I tried a MM and preferred it obviously. Up to the buyer to determine f they’d rather have a cheap good reissue or a high quality high price reissue.

    One complaint I had on almost all my BN75s is the pre-echo from cutting. Especially on quiet stuff played at medium loud volume, like Blue and Sentimental or Idle Moments, you could pick up traces of solos coming up. I know with vinyl and grooves that’s the nature of the medium somewhat, but I have much less of that on MM versions.
     
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  16. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    The only problem is the BN 75 don't sound even as good as a RVG '70s Liberty pressing, which can be found for not too much more.
     
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  17. BendBound

    BendBound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    I can't. I'm just repeating what I was told once upon a time. In the meantime, I acquired a King version when it was clear that MM was not going to release the title.

    I was not aware of that and will look for the citation. If you have it, I would like to see it.

    I did find this link: MUSIC DISCUSSION and Audio, Vinyl, related thoughts.: A few more of those dubious mono Japanese 200g Blue Notes: .

    Robert's comments pertaining to source of Kevin Gray's master are discussed deep in the comment section here: Rare Blue Note: what’s the collector alternative? UPDATED extra sample and poll added .

    On the other hand: "Blue Note ~ Premium Vinyl Reissue Series" by EMI Japan .

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  18. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Why cite Robert Hutton’s ears? The Wall Street Journal reported on these. They used the original mono masters, and Kevin mastered them to sound as close to RVG originals as he could. The label was going for retro authenticity, not an audiophile sound. This has been discussed many times, no need to spread old rumors.
     
  19. BendBound

    BendBound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Please excuse me. I was not aware. I did a search and the said WSJ article did not appear. The other links did.
     
  20. Johan1880

    Johan1880 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Here's the link you referring to and the video that I posted in this thread before. Hope nobody minds I post them again. It was fun for me to read and watch again!

     
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  21. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Does anyone know which of the MM 45 rpm albums were affected by RTI pressing clamp leaving white lines on the vinyl? Off the top of my head it is just LD+3 but it has been a while since I have played many of them. It should have only been in those early 2008/2009 releases.

    Here is what I am taking about:

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    There are a couple of the 45 rpms that I have with this same issue, it didn't affect Play but I got rid of all those pink inners they came with and replaced with Mo Fi and Japan inners. I hadn't heard about the clamp issue with RTI.
     
  23. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    [​IMG] Just checked my copy of LD+3 and the same issue is there...the original sleeve in this case was paper with liner not pink inner...may be something to the clamping issue.
     
    hvbias likes this.
  24. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    It's not the inner sleeves. Anyone that has not changed out the inner sleeves on the very early MM pressings will see they used poly inner sleeves at the beginning, same with early AP 45 rpm Blue Note and all of the Fantasy 100 45 rpm reissues (maybe they were on the pink plastic sleeves by series 4, the last 25 titles, I can't remember). It was also on the first pressing run of the 45 rpm of Charlie Brown Christmas and that had the poly inner sleeve.

    It affected the entire pressing run. I am just wondering if anyone knew which titles so I wouldn't have to got through every single one and could just check the known titles after 2008/2009.

    edit: oops we posted at the same time :)
     
  25. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Hang on, so that issue was or wasn’t caused by the poly lined inner sleeves? I have some AP 45s that have that same issue, like a square of cloudy white stuff around the record edge.
     
    ultron9 likes this.

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