Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

I find the exact opposite. Page one is so dynamic its wonderful. Just jumps out of the speakers!

 

I think I understand better now what you are saying. I can certainly see comparing the same MM title in 45 and 33 and subjectively deciding which fidelity you prefer. And I think that is a good way to state it, and really where I've been coming from from the beginning but just not quite getting where you were coming from. My own experience is it's a different presentation between MM 45 vs. 33, and even on my own modest system I hear what I believe is what hvbias and GreatTone are talking about. When I played Soul Station back to back, I preferred the 45, and effortless and relaxed are a nice description of how I felt about it. Close enough that I find I listen to the 33 more often on my system, but yeah, I totally understand where they are coming from. I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion when you start comparing.

 

Cheers, Tim.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to convey.

I've been spinning MM 45rpm titles all day, Soul Station being one of them (man, Blakey's crash cymbal is just one of my favorite sounds in the universe!).
I probably should've pulled-out my MM 33rpm Soul Station for a back-to-back comparison, but I wanted to move on.

One that I'm really looking forward to comparing is "Out To Lunch". The MM 45rpm of this leaves so little to my imagination as to how the fidelity can be surpassed. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I just hear zero weaknesses in the MM 45rpm. It's a real thing of beauty!

 

If you are ever in NH, after late summer next year you're welcome to drop by.

I mean the mastering/cutting volume combined with being one of Van Gelder's less dynamic recordings. It doesn't have that clarity or snap of some of his best stuff.

 

Again, my experience is the opposite. Page one by Music Maters at 33 RPM is really clear and snappy! Drum tap on Blue Bossa is clean, trumpets bright, bass deep. Piano in its place. I love how it all gels together. But I guess we all hear things differently and have different systems so I acknowledge that you may not have the same experience.

 

I find your comments odd.

On the one hand you have attacked people who find the 33s to be better than the 45s by alleging they are just repeating assumed facts and not basing their views on actual experience (despite several of us actually contributing our experience), and yet you yourself have not actually got round to comparing them whilst extolling the superiority of the 45s.

No sense of irony there then.

 

Huh?!

I didn't attack anybody.
And I specifically haven't expressed preference for either the 45rpm or the 33rpm because I haven't compared them.
I was up-front and clear about that in my one of my previous posts.

Do you feel attacked? If so, why?
If not, who specifically do you feel I attacked?
I haven't gotten the impression that anybody else has felt that.
Or, do you feel that it's too abrasive to ask whether the people who have stated that one is better than the other have done their own comparisons, and to share their more specific thoughts?

I don't mind one single bit that folks prefer the 33rpms to the 45rpms. It might very-well turn-out that I feel that way myself. I'm entirely open to that.

 

I am pretty sure we are arguing minutiae because I agree with everything you said. I'll be more clear- the Music Matters version sounds excellent, it's my go to version. The music is some of my favorite as well, I love the Latin tinged hard bop. I just don't think it is one of Van Gelder's best recordings. For example you can listen to Music Matters Midnight Blue at a whisper level and hear those snappy transients, the attack of Kenny's guitar, the reediness of Turrentine's sax, etc. Music Matters Page One for me needs some volume to come alive.

 

As far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant whether the 45s or 33 are better. I have 100 of the 112 Music Matters did on 45 RPM, and more than half of the AP BNs. There's not a bad one in the batch, and they didn't all of a sudden go bad because the 33 reissues surfaced. I'm keeping them all, and still plan to get the last 12 titles I don't have.

As for the 33s I'll get the 6 titles I don't already have as 45s. The 45s I have are well worth having and not in need of replacement with 33s, even if the later are improved.

 

Recently, I picked up a Blue Note reissue of Grant Green's Idle Moments, cut by RVG. The sound was pretty good and the music of course is phenomenal. A few days ago I purchased the MM 33 of the same title. I'm playing it as I write. All I can say is holy crap!! It sounds like the band is in my living room!

This is such a terrific set of pressings. The sound quality elevates the music to another level. Kevin Gray keeps churning out great stuff.

 

After reading this thread earlier today, I was inclined to spin a few Music Matters albums tonight. I've gone through Empyrean Isles, Little Johnny C and True Blue on 45rpm, and it was a nice reminder about just how good these sound. True Blue in particular... I mean if these guys hadn't put this out, I might never have even heard this album... what a gem.

Sometimes I get caught up in what I'm planning on picking up next, when it's a lot easier and more fun to just relax and enjoy the music I've got already, and casually look forward to whatever else comes next. These guys do a great job, no doubt about it.

 

We're fortunate.

 

I've got the house to myself this evening, and decided to pull-out my 45rpm and 33rpm of Kenny Drew's "Undercurrent".
I decided to just go with the title track for a comparison.
Spun the 45 first.
IMO, this isn't one of RVG's best-sounding recordings. I love the record immensely, and it sounds great, but maybe not as clear and defined as some of his other recordings.
One thing I was concerned about was the time it'd take me to switch my turntable's belt from the 33rpm pulley to the 45rpm; and would my hearing reset in that time.
When I put the 33rpm on, there was zero issue discerning the difference.
The 33rpm is hotter, but also provides significantly more clarity. Every note of the hi-hats, during the intro is clearer; less mushy. And that generally is the case for the rest of the tune, for each instrument.
I think the 33 is slightly brighter, in addition to being hotter, which can sometimes give an impression of more clarity, but I think it actually is more vibrant and alive. Maybe slightly less "warm" than the 45, but I'm not even sure about that.

I absolutely prefer the 33rpm of "Undercurrent" to the 45rpm. I presume it'd be the case for the rest of the album.

One last note; the vinyl was more quiet and flawless on my 33rpm compared to my 45rpm.
Both are impressive, but the 33 was cleaner-sounding.

Alright then. On to "Soul Station"...

 

I was an early subscriber (number 086) and bought the entire MM 45 series

I wont be buying dupes

I don't have any AP releases on 45

Which of the new 33 1/3 are new to MM and which are the reissues of the AP 45 Releases?

Thanks

 

Out of this list, I'll be picking up a whopping 3 titles.

Bud Powell - The Scene Changes
Jackie McLean - Right Now
Kenny Clarke - The Golden 8

Very happy to see Bud Powell and Kenny Clarke get some love. It's long needed. Also kind of crazy that it has taken this long for giants like them to get the audiophile treatment. It's better late than never I suppose.

What I am ecstatic about is Jackie McLean's 'Right Now'. That's what I've been waiting for. These are the types of records I've been clamoring for. McLean's output during this time period was nothing short of amazing, but for some reason hasn't seen much in the way of reissues from this fertile period (imo - his most fertile period) apart from maybe the Mosaic LP set pictured below.



It's confusing. Is it just an issue of licensing costs or is there no actual interest? I find it hard to believe that there are throngs of people screaming for more 3 Sounds, Ike Quebec and Horace Parlan. I like Quebec and Parlan btw.

Anyway, I won't be negative about the titles announced. I suppose the bright side of all these duplicates means that I'll save my money for something else.

 

I'm most excited about the Jackie McLean as well--I hope it sells well so they reissue more McLean going forward.

 

AP have Jackie McClean 4,5 and 6 and lights out.

 

Yes. I'll be buying it directly from MM when it gets released.

Also, although they already did Dolphy's 'Out to Lunch', it's one of the retreads that I don't mind. A lot of people missed it the first time around and it's certainly no warhorse title. I have the 45, but it's good to see that people have the opportunity to buy it. The 45 was selling for silly prices after it went out of print. Same with Grant Green's Matador. I bet those two sell out fast as well.

 

Yes, but those are from the mid 50s. That is many years before what I consider McLean's "fertile period" which was in the mid 60s. In my opinion of course.

 

I would love to see more. Apparently the best way to lobby for a title is to contact MM direct and ask them, so get writing everyone!

 

I agree. I would love to see more of the mid-60s BNs reissues. Jackie McLean and others. There is a lot of fertile music there.

 

While there are likely a host of reasons behind MMs selections, I have read a lot of posts by folks who would love to see the BN catalog mined for other titles and artists who are not covered. We all would.

One issue is what will sell. I asked MM about Herbie Nichols, for instance. They know he is a great pianist, but they indicated that they were concerned about how many folks wanted those titles. Same issue with Elmo Hope. Also, what about Tina Brook's other titles, which MM passed on to concentrate on other artists. Ron Rambach and Micheal Cuscuna (of Mosaic fame) know BN like few others. In order to keep MM going, it has to be a commercial venture first. I suspect as time evolves, other titles will be released. Right now they are mining a vein they know will and they have rights to the music.

A second issue is the quality of the source material. For example, I believe MM passed on Horace Parlan's Up & Down (earlier released by Classic) because the master tape was not in good enough shape. They were not going to invest if the final product was not going to be stellar. In the upcoming batch, Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil will use a second generation tape that MM discovered in the BN archives. That tape reportedly will correct a long standing issue of low bass and could become a definitive version. The major point is that they look for great tape.

A third issue is what competitor labels have done and plan. So MM will reissue Ike Quebec's Blue and Sentimental that was released in 45 RPM by AP and is now OOP. The MM release with all the upgrades will best this otherwise fine release. MM does not complete with Scorpio, a label that uses CD for a source so that their lps are records in name only (RINO). But my point is competitor actions are important.

A fourth issue is BN prerogative. There are licensing fees and permission to use source tapes. If BN, technically a MM competitor, wants to release the lp instead of licensing it, MM will not get them. A second facet is licensing fees. If the fee it too steep, MM will make an economic decision not to go with the title.

There are likely other aspects here to what is and what is not released. My hope is that over time, more BN titles and artists such as Frank Wess or George Braith are made available and the consumer base for this great music is developed to support firms like MM.

 

I have no horse in this race, but I imagine that the lesser-known BN releases would also have the lowest licensing fees.

I'm excited about all of them--only Out To Lunch will be a duplicate for me, and I'm planning to keep the 33 rather than the 45 anyway.

 

I for one am excited about these selections. I'll be buying most of them

Everyone should read this post several times. Lots of truth here.

Cheers to MM and I look forward to the new batch.