Need speaker advice: BA M350 vs Elac UniFi?

This is a spin off thread from my original thread here: Need advice on an amp and speakers for $500 ea . My original topic was asking for advice on a $500 amp and $500 speakers. The kind folks here helped me decide that I need to put the $1000 into speakers, and gave me tons of great advice on which ones. I started a new thread, as the title of the old one has new people chiming in on amp advice, which no longer applies.

So I've narrowed it down to the discontinued Boston Acoustics M350's, originally $2500, but now a few remaining can be found new for $700/pair. Or the Elac UniFi's for $1000/pair. My wife, despite being supportive of spending $1000 on new equipment when we were going to have a dedicated listening room is now less enthusiastic about spending $1000 on speakers when we have "perfectly good" speakers already (Technics SB-CR55's). So the BA's at $700 will be an easier sell. I read Stereophile's review on them from 2013 (thanks SandAndGlass) which said they have a lot of high bass and the port needs modified. That has me a little concerned, when buying without trying first. If the Elac's are a significantly better speaker, I'll figure out how to spend the $1000 without getting divorced. Just wanted to see if anyone here had any advice between the two before I pull the trigger on the BA's. TIA.

 

Wife mentioned today "...and your speakers for $250..." I've never discussed price with her, but sounds like I need to go M350's for $700. Anyone able to share their experience with them before I pull the trigger?

 

Pulled the plug on the BA M350's. I went back and forth, and it came down to the fact that the Elacs need serious power to shine, and several reviews that showed nominal impedance being 4 ohms. My current AVR (Onkyo TX-NR515) can't do 4 ohms for very long. The M350's had lower impedance at times as well, but seemed better suited for a 6+ ohm amp like mine. Got them off Amazon, which made me schedule delivery next week. I chose Saturday 4/22. I'll post here with my thoughts. My concerns are the high bass that the Stereophile review called out. And the fact that my livingroom is all tile. May need to get some rugs.

 

Killed them already?

I'm sure they'll be an improvement over your (old?) Technics. I think BA is generally underrated. They have a lot of experience and technical know-how in speaker design.

Hopefully they come with port bungs to help experiment with the bass, if not, you could always make your own. Tile floors can make room tuning a bit tough, maybe experiment with placing a rug in front of them.

 

Whoops, Guess I was thinking "pulled the trigger"

 

Please understand, that reviewers have to find something wrong with a product, in order that your review might remain credible.

After all, is there really any "perfect" speaker?

One thing that I can assure you. Take that "bass" comment from the review, with a grain of salt. Meaning, just dismiss it completely, because it simply does not exist.

I have not seen the UniFi's myself, but I tend to believe that they also are a quality speaker, being an Andrew Jones design. While a lot of individuals have successfully designed speakers, Andrew has the distinction of designing a quality speaker and bringing it to market at a price point, well below, what one would expect for a speaker of that quality.

Wait till you get your M-350's. Be sure to unbox them with your wife, let her be part of the experience. When, you both, get them out of the box, let your wife remove the soft cloth protective cover. When she sees how beautiful they are, with their flawless piano black finish, I promise you that she will absolutely fall in love with them.

And when you get them hooked up and turn them on, she will be grinning from ear to ear. WAF, will never even enter the picture, the sound will blow both you and her away! Don't worry about a break in period, they sound fine, right out of the box.

There is something that you need to know. About half of what you will read, in reviews, on the manufacturer's web site and in the instruction manual, will state that the M-350 is a 8-ohm speaker, the other half will indicate that it is a 4-ohm speaker.

I brought this up with another member who I had a conversation similar to yours, who decided to purchase one of the sale pair for himself.

At the time, I didn't have a functional multi-meter. I have since bought one, but the M-350's were put away, on the very top of a stack, close to the ceiling in a storage room.

Well, I decided to pull one down for you. Fortunately, the box opens on the long side, rather than on one of the ends. I was able to lift the cloth liner bag up a bit to expose the speaker terminals, without having to remove them from the box. I got out my brand new digital multimeter, plugged in the probes, set the meter on ohms and touched the leads together, the meter automatically calibrated to zero.

I managed to stick the leads into the center of the speaker terminals, I did not get a constant reading, because they were not being held stationary in place, but I would say, that the average reading was 3.7-ohms! This is measuring DC resistance, which means that these are a nominal 4-ohm speaker and not an eight ohm speaker, as some of the referenced sources indicated.

From your Onkyo's receiver's website, technical specifications:

Power Output
All Channels 100 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven)

Front L/R 80 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
125 W + 125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Center 80 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround L/R 80 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
125 W + 125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround Back L/R 80 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
125 W + 125 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Dynamic Power 180 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
160 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
100 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)

You will notice, that under dynamic power, it does list both a 4-ohm load and a 3-ohm load.

On page 13, of the English version of the user's manual, it states:

Speaker Connection Precautions
Read the following before connecting your speakers:
• You can connect speakers with an impedance of between 6 and 16 ohms. If you use speakers with a lower impedance, and use the amplifier at high volume levels for a long period of time, the built-in amp protection circuit may be activated.

I take this to mean, that you can use 4-ohm speakers, with your amp. If you run it at high power, for an extended period of time, you will not destroy your amp, as most modern, decent amps, like yours, will have a built in protection circuit, that will cut in to protect your amplifier from overheating.

I really doubt that you will have any issues with you amp, driving the M-350's to a moderate to loud volume.

Relax, have a drink, and you and your wife, sit back and enjoy some music!

Please, don't forget to report back, from time to time and let us know your impressions.

I for one, appreciate, multiple, first hand reviews, from our various members.

If our members and our non-member forum followers are impressed, I would love to see them get a chance on the units that remain. As I think these are one of the best values on a speaker close out, that I have ever seen, myself.

If these don't pass the WAF test, then it's time to consider some Bose "cubes".

The UniFi's don't seem to be the ones to pass the WAF test, I bet the BA's do, with flying colors.

 

Wow, SandAndGlass, again you blow me away with your thorough response. It was your recommendation earlier that led me to go with the M350's. Thank you so much for testing the impedance and researching my specific receiver. Very helpful. I don't think I'll be playing them at a very loud volume too often, so I'm hoping I'm OK. If it becomes an issue, I'll just have to upgrade the AVR. I will definitely post back with my impressions. They're not scheduled to be delivered until Saturday 4/22, as there were no slots open until next week and Saturdays work best for us. Record Store Day! I plan to come home from that, and hook them up and try out the new records I bought. I'll be sure to post my impressions here.

 

Again, I wouldn't worry about the volume. By that, I mean playing them at a lower level that you feel like. Sometimes, we want to go easy on speakers. You can tell when the power is either clipping, from too little power, from the amp, when you are turning it up. This is very bad for the speakers, as specially the tweeter.

Your receiver, has enough power, to properly power the speakers to reasonably loud levels. Your receiver will provide the current, they need when the demand calls for it. If your amp is drawing too much power, the electronics will begin to heat up and the thermal and current sensing circuitry will kick in and cut out the power, until the amp regains a normal temperature. It then again, continue to operate normally.

When I first set up the rear speakers, I bought a $99, hundred watt per-channel, Sherwood stereo receiver to power the rear channels. It served its purpose at the time but had an annoying quality. If the amplifier clipped it turned off. You had to manually turn the receiver back on, with just the tiniest bit of clipping.

Normally, an amp that can detect and protect your speakers from clipping, will just cut out the signal for a moment or two and restore the signal, when the amp is no longer clipping. This would not happen at normal volumes, just when I would have the mains, playing really loud, sometimes during dramatic HT where I wanted to produce "IMAX" like audio effects.

This receiver, has front panel switches to run two sets of speakers. Since, the protection circuitry seemed to be overly sensitive, I had a curiosity.

I dug out the manual and looked up about connecting a second set of speakers, in the fine print, it said something to the effect of, "when connecting and operating two sets of speakers, make sure that they are 16-ohm speakers.

Running two 16-ohm speakers in parallel, will result in the current being doubled, over running a single 16-ohm speaker. By the same thinking, running two 8-ohm speakers in parallel, will result in a 4-ohm load. I could see this inexpensive receiver, being very unhappy with a 4-ohm load!

Considering the average knowledge of someone going into a big box store (or buying on line), an inexpensive receiver, but one that is rated at a hundred watts per channel, same as many of the more expensive receivers, and that individual having any knowledge about something like impedance? Not too likely!

How many modern day speakers are rated at 16-ohms, I doubt if there are very many!

In the old days, of commercial sound, where there were longer speaker runs, with thinner speaker wire, It was common to have 16-ohm speakers, but not today.

Later, I replaced the rear receiver with a 50-watt Emotiva and I no longer have the issues.

Don't hold back on the BA's, they were built to take plenty of power. When you get them hooked up, you will be surprised at how much volume and how full the sound that comes through these relatively small towers.

Listen to them the way that they were meant to be listened to. You will know when you hear it. No, they will not shake the earth, with LFE's with HT use and they will not make a rock concert appear in your living room. They are not as dynamic as some speakers, but you can listen at solid volume hours for hours on end and not experience listening fatigue. Many speakers sound dynamic during a showroom demo, but to listen to them for hours on end can be an excruciating experience.

Your amp is protected, if you over work it, your amp will politely convey that information to you, no harm done.

Yes, I think that there are better amps for your to use. But once you and your wife, fall in love with these speakers, you will both look forward to the time, when it is time to upgrade your receiver.

And that will not necessarily be expensive, do a search for Marantz and SandAndGlass, and you will see an example of what I mean.

All the Best! I know that you both will be enjoying the BA's

S&G

 

F.Y.I. The Stereophile article, that you read, does indicate that they are 4-ohm speakers.

Their M-Product Spec Sheet and the same information is contained in the PDF of the Owner's Manual on the BA web site, indicates that they are compatible with 8-ohms.

Go figure???

 

Yep, I saw that. But figured the 8-ohm rating on the spec sheet made me feel better than the Elacs, which are stated as 6-ohm, but reviewers also tested at 3.8.

 

As I said, I think that you will be fine.

BTW... If you find that you do have too much bass, just plug the port with an old towel.

 

I don't think too much bass will be an issue. I like placing my current speakers in the corner to increase the bass. Just hope it's not reverberating high bass, then I will try the towel.

 

Always loved BA Speakers. And those ones are sweet. Enjoy

 

Today was the day the speakers were to be delivered. Due to their size, Amazon requires scheduled delivery through a 3rd party courier. I chose 3-6pm today, and arranged to be home during that time. When 6pm rolled around and I had no speakers, I called the courier who told me they did not go out for delivery today. Thanks for letting me know!!! They claim they only have one box and are waiting for the 2nd one. So I called Amazon and they said the tracking info of their shipment to the courier shows the box as 156 lbs. Pretty sure that's 2 speakers in there. So I call the courier back, and just get voice mail, despite the fact that the message says they're open for another hour. Guess I'll try again next week. Was so excited about hearing them tonight...

 

Yeah, get an email invoice and edit the HTML to show "$250"

 

The Amazon rep did say she'd refund $75 for my delivery hassle. Not a bad deal: $2500 speakers for $625.

 

I paid $1,250 for mine (plus 6% sales tax), I thought I got a great deal.

You got them for half of what I paid!

You WIN!

 

Update: Now they're not being delivered at all. They're refunding me my $699 and letting me repurchase (there are just 2 pair left in stock!). No word about the $75 discount this way though. And the earliest scheduled delivery window is on 5/3. Definitely a lesson in patience.

 

That is kinda odd? Any idea what that is all about?

 

I'd push for a $75 Amazon gift card to use toward the new purchase, you still sat around waiting for your delivery and time is money.

 

They convinced Amazon that there should be 2 boxes. Even though the box they have says 150+ lbs. I'm worried the same will happen the next time, which I've scheduled for 5/5.

Yep, did just that. They gave me a $75 promo which will apply to my next order sold & shipped by Amazon, which these speakers are not. They're sold by HiDEF Lifestyle. I'll take it. I just wish they'd expedite these to me via FedEx on their dime. I might call tonight and request/demand that.

 

The first order, which was refunded, delivered today. Have the re-ordered pair still delivering next Fri. I'll inform Amazon of the error after I try out this first pair, just in case something is wrong with them.

 

Wait until you unbox them! They are surprisingly heavy for their size. And after you have them in place, admire their flawless piano black finish.

And lastly, they will sound as good as they look!

 

Another member was looking for advice on an amplifier and speakers for $3,500.

I gave him some recommendations on all and linked to this thread, telling him that you just received your M-350's earlier today.