Needledroppers, what dithering do you use and why?

One more clarification please, Barry.

I record needledrops into a Pro Tools session at 24/44.1 (my Digi 001 only goes to 48k, and I'd rather not go through Digi's SRC process).

So, sticking Ozone on a Master track as the last (or only) part of the chain and bouncing in real time should do it then, right?

Or, to attempt to save time, could I apply Ozone via the non-real time AudioSuite plug-in to the region in the 24/44.1 session and then export as a stereo 16/44.1 file?

 

Hi Rob,

I agree about avoiding ProTools' SRC.
While you could probably use Ozone in real time, personally, I like to do all processing in non-real time and make it as easy as possible for the CPU.

One thing to keep in mind with MBIT+ (and I believe it works this way in Ozone too), is that it applies dither/noise shaping but the resulting file will still be 24-bit. You will need to save the file as 16-bit after applying MBIT+.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Thanks Barry

- Looks like I've got some work to redo then!

All the best

- Mike

 

I knew I'd have to "Export Session File As" a 16 bit...I just wasn't sure if doing that instead of bouncing to disk in real-time would truncate instead of dither it down properly.

I will now apply the dither to the region via AudioSuite and export it as a 16 bit file and save myself a ton of time and processing power.

Thank you, Barry! (And thanks for your tremendous mastering work, as much as your generosity to share your vast knowledge)

 

Here's a nice read: http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/OzoneDitheringGuide.pdf

And if you want to check the accompanying audio files: http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/dither_files.zip

 

This type of dithering has its limitations, check the pdf file I posted before.

 

Hi Barry,

Indeed, Ozone 3 dithers and leaves the file at 24 bits, but with all the bits above 16 as '0's, so you have to convert (truncate) them to 16 bits afterwards.

 

Sound Forge lets you do the same. I just tried using their high-pass dither/noise shaping, left the files at 32-bit, then truncated them to 16-bits in Audition. The result isn't bad.

 

Does anyone here use Audacity and if so which dithering do you use (if any). I found "triangle" to give me the best results so far (for Rock music, have yet to needledrop any classical or jazz). I'm curious to hear what others think. Don't know how many people here use Audacity but it's a perfect program for me for doing my needledrops. Thanks.

 

I am not familiar with Audacity, but - short of using MBIT+ 64-bit dithering - it is known that triangular dithering tends to sound the best. I believe this subject is touched upon in the dithering PDF I posted before. Do not let the fact that this document is tied to MBIT+ dithering make you think it has nothing for everyone. In fact, they discuss different types of dithering on it, because Ozone 3 offers several different dithering algorithms including MBIT+.

 

Hi Simon

I use Audacity. But have decided to restart a project (or a least the main element of it) because I was using dithering at each point of processing. I haven't decided which shaping I prefer yet.

 

As two-month old Newb to needledropping , I just wanted to say thank you for all the valuable info on this thread. I didn't really know much about dithering, and was getting pretty frustrated with the quality of some of my transfers. Short of upgrading my cartridge, I had tweaked just about everything I could. I knew I was missing something. I've been playing around with dithering, getting a feel for what different settings do, and already I can hear that this is the solution to my problem. Thanks folks!

 

The place to start for improved sound is no doubt the cart, then the turntable, then the phono stage.

The better the sound going into the computer, the less you need to tweak everything else. Then, you can concentrate on just keeping the sound as transparent as possible.

 

And the arm - don't forget the arm. Unless of course that was assumed in the turntable. In which case, please forgive the intrusion.

 

resurrecting a very old thread here but does anyone happen to know which of the DCAT curves is the MBIT emulator?

 

I don't know if I posted this, but I quit using noise shaping.

 

I'm probably one of the few people who even uses Peak 6 anymore but I do like running it for dithering but their literature has no specific information about the actual shape of the DCAT curves.

 

Whaat?..

 

If I record at 24/192 and am keeping the files at that resolution, do I actually need to apply dithering at all?

 

No, but some people feel that you may benefit from dithering any processing anyway.

 

Dithering has nothing to do with sampling rate. It's something you need to do when reducing word length from 24 or 32 boys to 16. Some folks advocate applying dither when reducing from 32 to 24 bits as well although in that case it's less critical.

 

Actually, I should've been more precise. I use Adobe Audition on the Mac, and when I select a 192k sample rate it automatically records at 32 bits. After I'm done editing and cleaning up the file and I break into individual tracks, I save them as 192/24. The dialog box always defaults to dithering, but I read somewhere that it's not necessary or beneficial to dither when going from 32 to 24 bits, so I've always turned it off.

 

There are two thoughts of mind on this. Some say yes, some say no. You can't hurt anything by dithering to 24-bit.

You can turn off the dither in the options.

 

Exactly. I've tested adding dither to 24-bit files and found that it's below the threshold of human hearing but it smooths the distortion down there so I usually leave it on.