Neil Young readies Pono music service for expansion Part 3

Pono Announcements — Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic)
There's a blog post today that makes numerous false claims about Pono. I tried to reply to the post but it doesn't display the replies. I wanted to make sure the Pono community sees the corrections first hand. You can read the post here:

http://www.showbiz411.com/2014/08/30/neil-youngs-super-mp3-player-pono-wont-be-coming-in-2014

My response will be in replies to this down below:
Pono Community, Pono Player, Pono,Kickstarter Campaign, (Today at 1:23 PM ·

Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic)
@Roger - Pono normally doesn’t respond to every post and article about us as there hundreds of them. But normally they are at least 80% accurate about their claims about Pono. In the case of your post, we had to make an exception because about the only things you got right were the spelling of our name. Here’s a list of the errors and corrections:

- PonoPlayer is NOT an MP3 player. It's a hifi (or hi-res) portable digital music player. Calling it an MP3 player misses the whole point of Pono!!! It’s like calling an HDTV an SDTV! Pono exists to move the market away from compressed music. So call Pono an MP3 players is an insult!

- PonoPlayer plays a variety of audio format including: FLAC, ALAC, WAV, AIFF, AAC (unprotected), and MP3

- The Kickstarter player rewards were promised to be delivered in two batches: The first batch of about 10K units ships by end of October 2014 and the second batch of about 5K units ships by end of December 2014 - we’re actually doing our best to get these shipped before Christmas. You can check out the commitment dates on our Kickstarter campaign before making claims about us being late. We are in fact on schedule and will be meeting our Kickstarter commitments.

- Our Preorder store currently is for preorders of units for delivery after the Kickstarter commitments because our production pipeline for 2014 is for the most part allocated to Kickstarter fulfillments. Units preordered now will be made available in Q1 of 2015, but likely will be shipped earlier in the quarter than later. The Neil hand-signed certificates are meant to be a stocking stuffer for people who preorder before December 15.

- Just because Crowdfunder lists over $7 million in Pono interest that doesn’t mean the entire amount is raised. The investors have to be vetted to be US accredited investors and have to go through the process of finalizing their investment, which is time-consuming. Ultimately, a fraction of the total interest is actually raised as many people don’t meet the criteria to invest.

- Can you list the Apple and Samsung hi-res players that you claim are available? If you’re referring to their MP3 players then again you’re missing the whole point of Pono - back to the difference between HD and SD!

- Your argument about kids only listening to MP3 players could have been also used when everyone was watching standard definition TV. How could kids be listening to Hi-Res players if no good affordable players exist? 20 years ago, you would’ve said why buy an HDTV when everyone’s watching SDTV. Look how that turned out! Once people experienced the difference and could actually afford to buy HDTVs, SDTVs became a thing of the past. This is precisely what the PonoPlayer does - it makes the technology of a $20K audiophile grade preamp available to the masses for $399. Once people hear the difference, there’s no going back.

- Let’s address your concern about Pono’s music library and the claim that it’s unclear where we’ll get our music from. The very suggestion that we should have a deal with HDTracks suggests that you have no idea how the music industry works. HDTracks has their own deal with the music labels and so does Pono. We have already agreements with all three major labels (Warner, Sony, and Universal). Not only do we have access to the same hi-res content that HDTracks does, but we also have access to the labels’ entire CD Lossless catalog and will be the first online store to offer them as a downloadable purchases (without forcing the customer to purchase the actual CD and rip it). We’ll launch our store in October with about 2.5M tracks.

- We’re also actively engaged with all the indie aggregators to extend our catalog beyond the majors.

- We use FLAC as our store’s audio standard for downloadable purchases because it’s the de facto open standard for lossless music. HDTracks isn’t the only store with a FLAC catalog. Our partner Omnifone already has 90% of their 30M+ catalog in FLAC. HDTracks provides a variety of formats and at various resolutions. Their site is usable by technical consumers who understand all the formats and resolutions. Pono is meant for the general public so we have one standard (FLAC) and one resolution (the best there is).

- Lastly, we are planning a major Pono launch at the Dreamforce conference (Oct 13-16), which has an attendance of 125K. Neil’s a keynote speaker and Pono is being spotlighted in a big way by Salesforce (the platform that our store and community run on). Neil’s keynote will be watched by 3M people live online and an additional 1M will watch the recording. So your post is really a bit premature in predicting Pono’s demise.

Best Regards,

Pedram Abrari
Pono’s EVP of Technology

 

Kudos, very well said, Pedram. Not interested in the player but look forward to the store. The way you have drawn it out here in your reply sounds promising, more competition and innovation are a plus.

 

I don't know about Apple devices, but current Samsung smartphones can all play high-res FLAC files (as well as most of the other audio codecs out there).

With a decent pair of headphones, and a small headphone amp, the results are pretty impressive.

 

Phil Weinmeister (PonoMusic)
Anyone going? Last year, free Keynote passes were available (http://blogs.salesforce.com/company/2013/09/attend-dreamforce-free.html). I don't know if that will be the case this year, but you might want to be on the lookout.
Neil Young to speak at Dreamforce 2014 in San Francisco (mid-October)
http://www.salesforce.com/dreamforce/DF14/keynotes.jsp
Topics: Neil Young, Dreamforce, Links, Bruno Mars, Will.i.am
· Two days ago at 7:55 AM ·
Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic)
If any of you happen to be in the San Francisco area around Oct 13-16, this is quite a conference to attend. Highly informative and fun. Pono will be spotlighted in a big way. You'll also be able to hear PonoPlayers in the Communities Cloud area both with headphones and in two listening booth in a home audio setup.
There will also be a drawing to win one of 24 PonoPlayers especially mode for the Pono launch at Dreamforce.
· Yesterday at 1:29 PM ·
Phil Weinmeister (PonoMusic)
FYI - A purchase of a full conference pass provides access to the "Dreamforce Gala" and benefit concert headlining Bruno Mars, with will.i.am at the after-party.
· Yesterday at 1:56 PM ·
Douglas Stewart (Member)
@Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic) Can you tell us what will be different about these PonoPlayers?
· Yesterday at 2:00 PM ·
Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic)
The only difference is the engraving on them commemorating the Pono launch. All PonoPlayers are identical from a features perspective.
· Yesterday at 2:03 PM ·
Douglas Stewart (Member)
@Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic) Yeah I took it the Tech would be the same, just wondered about the Engraving, Colour etc.
· Yesterday at 2:18 PM ·
Pedram Abrari (PonoMusic)
All engraved player are Chrome.
• Yesterday at 2:26 PM ·

 

Isn't the value prop for the Pono hardware based on a higher-quality DAC and dedicated headphone section, in addition to supprt for FLAC?

 

"Pono exists to move the market away from compressed music. So call Pono an MP3 players is an insult!"

I see that Pono is still muddying the waters regarding compression, conveniently ignoring the grievous sin of dynamic range compression in favor of promoting lossy file compression as the real enemy to recorded music. Having dealt with both issues in building and ripping my own collection to digital, I know which one bothers me the most. As others have said previously, give me a well-mastered 320 kbps mp3 file over a garbage-sounding lossless file any day. Despite their rhetoric early on, it's looking more and more like the vaunted Pono store will be filling its servers with the same brickwalled "HD" files that we've already been fed by hi-res audio industry. And that would be the real insult.

 

Supposedly those are some of the selling points...after all is said and done it will be interesting to compare the SQ of a Pono playing back a 24/192 file versus a smartphone.

I'll be leaving that to others, and will no doubt be reading about the comparison here.

I'm still on the fence as to whether there is any audible benefit to 24/192 transfers in the first place.

 

File compression is also bad so Pono have a legitimate point here. For the best possible sound, you need a good original recording, a good mastering, and a high resolution file format that lets all the music through.

 

Thanks for your comments Pedram.

 

True, but IMO they're not being 100% transparent about this. Educated audio folks like you and I may understand the issue, but Joe Sixpack will look at their press releases and just assume that lossless=better audio, period. When Joe then goes out and buys a couple of "hi-res" files from the Pono store and hears little to no difference between them and his existing Amazon/iTunes downloads, he'll decide that the hi-res movement is a complete sham. From the promotional materials I've seen so far, I'd be inclined to agree. What we need is a promotional push not just for lossy compression, but for better mastering practices to combat the loudness wars that have plagued the industry since digital became the norm. Neil Young and Pono seemed well-positioned to fight that fight with the initial Pono announcement, but since then it's sounded like a lot of empty promises and backpedaling.

 

The 2 first will suffice. 3rd one is more/less moot. The only thing that will make a difference is the amp they use.

 

That's not been my experience. Recording, mastering, and playing it back at more than 16/44 has significant benefits.

 

Maybe so to a degree but Pono has from the first day as best I can tell always focused on the benefits of hirez. They may figure that a discussion on mastering differences will be too much for the marketing/consumer education campaign.

 

Recording & mastering, yes. Playback, definately not significant. How does recording & mastering apply to the Pono-thingy? Other than the fact a recording can sound good?

 

I think the best we can do here is agree to disagree.

 

That may be true, but such focus may also undermine their campaign in toto. There was virtually no consumer education in that infomercial or on their website. In fact, Neil's dissertation on "underwater listening" could not in any way be construed as education. However it had emotion in spades. I think the hook, or buy in, is based on giving the buyer the idea that he is participating in the restoration of the classics before it is too late. It is also being hailed as a one step and simple solution to achieve sonic bliss. I think we all know better here.

 

I think this is exactly how this will play out. From the start, Pono has been a solution in search of a problem.

 

Yes a big movement would help but don't forget you need to do your part as well. Take a second and write to the record labels and your favorite bands. Start a petition if you have to. Why be lazy and leave it up to someone else all the time. Not completely pointing the finger at you of course as I have no way of knowing if you have done so already but I think you get my drift as well as others who will be reading this.

 

I like the idea of communicating in some way to the labels, etc. I think a better way would be some kind of electronic petition from this site. It might actually pull some weight.

On the other hand, let's face the reality here and why these loudness wars began in the first place. Most people are not pushing 200 watts per channel and they just don't have the power to make CDs sound good, or maybe a better way of saying this is that they will play too quiet. I can't recall, but I don't think mini-systems are even pushing 50 watts. Also, I think the CD player in the automobile contributed as well. But I don't know for sure. I never invested in an after market sound system for a car.

I think we have to face a cold hard fact. The business model has never been geared for good quality sound in this country. The pursuit of it has always been a boutique affair.

 

So basically we're back to square one. Pono will be just another portable device/ website (of the many) to the audiophile community and some Joe Sixpacks may get fooled into some colorful advertisement but in the end wise up and that's the end of Pono reaching out to teach others about sound. When all the joe sixpacks learned they we're taken for a ride on a sham.
Okay I get it.

 

Yes about the type of response I expected from most wasting their time responding to my post instead of trying to do something about it themselves. I'm not trying to put you down but do you see what I'm getting at? No need to actually respond to me about this question.

 

Excluding the weekly Flat Earth Society meets we have here to denounce hirez, we should all be excited and supportive about a push to 24 bit audio.

For all the criticisms may have about Pono, at a minimum they deserve great credit for attempting to educate more consumers about the possibility of better sound. The videos from Neil Young and team have wisely included a boat load of popular artists. Neil as a celebrity has a very big megaphone.

This is the very best chance for us audiophiles and music lovers to get more music in better quality.

 

You know what? **** "Joe Sixpack! "Joe Sixpack" is a ***** who has no taste or sense of style or aesthetics. He votes against his best interests and has continually dragged my country (USA!) down with his idiocy and uninformed buffoonery.

"Joe Sixpack" has no bearing on matters when it comes to quality of sound. They make cheap crap that's sold at Walmart for that chump. The Pono is not really aimed at "Joe Sixpack" is it?

Neil Young is Dennis Hopper in Easy Rider, "Joe Sixpack" is the redneck with the shotgun.

Mr Sixpack can kiss my ass.

 

Not only that, my marketing day job has taught me that "Joe Sixpack" doesn't exist. There are literally hundreds of groups of customers that act in similar ways but have different needs. Some groups already love hirez, some only need to be introduced properly to it, and some will never want it. By having a more exciting marketing campaign, Pono and the rest of the audio community can reach more people. We can reach a tipping point which is maybe where Apple buys Pono or introduces 24 bit finally.

 

Oh boy, now we're dreaming. Show us the light, Lee.