New DAC

Hello. This is my first post. Not sure if there is any protocol to follow. Apologies if this is an inappropriate question. I recently purchased a McIntosh 352 amp and Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers. Currently I’m streaming with my laptop through a Marantz ND8006 via usb that I enjoy. But, was pondering a McIntosh DAC. Would there be a noticeable improvement? I have my eye on a nice used D150. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks,

Bill

 

I have heard differences between the cheap DAC's built into PC's when I transitioned to an outboard $100 DAC, on three different PCs. There are people who tell me I did not hear this, and I will cheerfully confess I have never blind tested. If I did blind test it someone would say that I did it wrong. I suspect the DAC shipped on a PC's motherboard costs about $2.00. I suspect your Marantz has a good DAC unless it is super old.

Many others on this page say there are differences between high end DACs. I have never tried to hear the difference between two high quality DACs. I tend to believe those who say they can hear it. Full disclosure, I tend to doubt those who claim they can hear the effects of power cords. So I am inconsistent.

 

Both players have a DSD DAC. The one in the Marantz is Saber ESS 9016 chip. It’s no slouch, really good. Not sure what’s in the D150. We all understand the machine is much more than just the chip….some machines have more features than others…which I think the McIntosh has. You probably will have better synergy with the McIntosh over the Marantz seeing you have McIntosh amps… but I don’t think your DAC performance alone will be that much better in performance. Let your ears do the talking. I am one who can hear the differences in power cords and cables. I’ve heard differences in high end DAC’s as well. But the performances in DSD DAC,s using the DSD options aren’t head and shoulders over each other,….yeah I could hear the difference, but ask your self…does the increment in better sound equal the money spent for such increment? Let your ears be your guide. The Marantz has a very good DSD DAC. Never heard the McIntosh.

 

I recently have purchased smsl vmv d1se. I am very very impressed with the sound improvement. I keep on saying that it promoted my whole system a tier up. It has bluetooth and sound color option in which you can find the sound that would fit to ur taste (3 rich, 3 tube, 3 crystal and standard choice (where it bypasses). Inbetween these choices you can hear soundstage expanding, imaging getting focused or more floating around, tubelike graceful sound etc. I like having options. I think u can easily return it if u don’t like it. Oh, I am using innuos zenmini mk3 network streamer and compared its internal dac to limetree network and lumin d2 and found it superior. D1se beats all of them dacwise. Enjoi!

 

That Machine has ESS ES9038PRO chip….nice! Same chip manufacturer in the Marantz ..just a heads up for @Billybear so confirmed his chip in Marantz is legit. Yours also comes with nice features proving point of Machine is much more than just DAC chip.

 

Oh I am %100 on, ‘it is not about the chip’!

 

Didn’t say it’s not about the chip. There are some DAC chips that aren’t very good so yeah you want a great performer. My point is it’s not only the DAC chip for SOME. They want other features of the machine as well.

 

What DACs have you tried?

 

My understanding is that modern DACs dont really have a sound signature or change it.
As mentioned sometimes there will be different gain levels which can easily affect the perception of the sound, I know Ive been fooled many times thinking something was better, when it was actually just louder.
Otherwise Im sure theres a great deal of placebo involved as well.

 

You might want to check out the reviews and measurements of DACs on the audio science review forum.

 

So the entire thing is essentially a hoax? Or just one big marketing exercise? I can buy a Denafraps, or a Hugo, and they're the same?

I've watched many of them. But it's a bit like wanting to know if there's a God, and deciding only to ask a Priest, isn't it? I mean, I've many many reviews, from many sources.

 

Apparently, the one in cheap soundcards and the ones in the other expensive components Ive seen use the same one. Does that mean its just one or several because they are sold as different products?
Either way, I dont see how anecdote will matter here.

 

Seems like it to me.

 

I’m referring to this website:

DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface

 

Right. He makes videos on Youtube, and I've watched many of them. If they're all the same, it beggars belief there's an entire web site about them.

 

I have limited knowledge and experience and I'm in the market for a new DAC, hence the question. As you've heard DACs that sound the same I'd like to know what they are.

 

Think whatever you want, it’s your money your system your ears. But if you want to get a high-quality ESS chip based DAC and “save” a little money TOPPING D90SE is on sale 15% off for the rest of today only. They have the SMSL one too, it’s less money.

I can’t say whether this is going to sound as good or better than anything else in my system, but mine arrives on Thursday. I’ll post something eventually to let people know my opinion.

 

Well I dont exactly have deep knowledge or insight and from the little Ive seen and heard I just dont find there to be a difference. I did read a small pre study you could call it a while back and saved it as I sometimes do, but it seems the page is down now. Notes read:
DAC test where the cheapest and the most expensive ended in the final against each other. The difference between them was described as "a hair's width".
http://www.stereomojo.com/Stereomojo Six DAC Shootout.htm/StereomojoSixDACShootout.htm

Im sure we could find other studies but Ive never bothered since as I dont have much desire in it. My realm is mostly in vinyl and analog, thats what I know best and Im just sharing what little I can.

 

Just know this….all DACs don’t sound the same. There is a difference. About 5 years ago I was at a shootout of the PSAudio DAC Stream and transport and the Lampizator I think it was a Level 5 or something like that. They sounded different. We couldn’t say one was better than the other but they sounded different. The DUDE preamp, CODA mono blocks, Legacy speakers….all fed with a high end custom music server computer. Only thing changed out was DACs. They did not sound the same. Fast forward to 2021 that same system contains a Lampizator Golden Gate DAC. I’ve not heard better.

 

Tbf, this is the best news I've had all day. They're all the same, and since I already have a DAC in my CD player, I'm good. I literally nearly bought a Hugo II this evening (seriously). Like everyone, I was concerned on how much difference it would make, now I need not bother, it'll make no difference.

What's puzzling is... if amps do nothing but amplify - and therefore they're essentially all the same - and CD transports are all the same, and further, that DAC's are all the same, then what can I do to get better sound? I own all those components already. I'm looking for more detail, but it seems there's nothing I can do.

 

Well, Id love to see a proper study on it. If there is one with such positive results, Ill believe it.
But again, sometimes there is a gain difference but I dont count that as a "real difference".

 

Fair enough….you have that right. But that Golden Gate DAC will set a person back about $18k. No $2k DAC is going to sound better.

https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/golden-gate-dac-1

 

Serious question - what method do you use to measure differences in the sound signature of one unit over another?

 

You have got to be kidding us right? Wow.

Even Amir at Audio Science Review believes there are material differences in both how they measure and sound.

 

Read this site. Totally measurable and objective.

Articles, Reviews and Measurements of Audio Products