New Leonard Cohen Album “Popular Problems” To Be Released Sept 2014

Try a couple of posts back up for the definition of science. I'm sorry to insult you, but your understanding of it is flawed. I'd rather you not argue from those faulty assumptions. Bias has no place in a scientific approach, nor subjectivity. Both are essential, however, when it comes to critiquing art.

 

We are talking about sound quality not the quality of the music. Science can say a lot about sound quality.

All I've said is that because I prefer recordings with good dynamic range, I'm disappointed that the CD of Popular Problems doesn't have the great dynamic range (and all that follows from that) which all but one of my other Cohen recordings have (most are DR13 or 14).

Of course there is lots I cannot tell about the sound quality from the DR values - but it does provide good predictive power about how the dynamics will sound. A DR9 recording sounds different to a DR14 recording - that is why DR is useful. The DR is a very good predictor of the dynamics I will hear - just like temperature is a good predictor of how hot something will feel.

Because sound quality is part of my experience of the art, the poor DR value will reduce my enjoyment. (If this was not the case then I could have saved myself a huge amount of money not buying good equipment and would have been happy with something very cheap). Of course once the sound is good (or better than good) most of the enjoyment comes from the quality of the music.

You talk about confirmation bias - well most of the time it goes the other way. A few weeks ago I listened to Vangelis's See You Later, and the dynamics knocked my socks off. A few days later I read on this forum that this album has a DR of 16. Other times I put on something and hear all the problems of the loudness wars. I look for reviews here or look up the DR and find that the DR is very low, ie the fault isn't my ears or equipment - it is the mastering.

I'm a professional electrical and telecommunications engineer, so I understand science and technolgy. And I'm a hi-fi and music buff - so I appreciate the great thrill of good sound quality and, most importantly, the experience of the music.

 

Can we get back on topic?
I couldn't give a rats a**e about DR values, fully expect that my viny copy will sound excellent when it arrives.
I have streamed PP a few times and loved it. Early impressions are it is right up there with Old Ideas as a great Cohen album.
The old fella still has it ....... In spades.

 

I would prefer this thread dealt with Leonard Cohens wonderful new album- not quasi-scientifical b-t

 

This is quite possibly the strangest thread on here at the moment,

 

I agree and the last vinyl lp of Old Ideas sounded excellent on vinyl and I have no idea what the DR value was for that lp. I think maybe LC mentioned it in a lyric somewhere.

 

Would folks who are interested in DR please use the quote feature when replying? Some of us who, while interested in the science of sound, are not interested in circular debate that compresses our thoughts to the point that the music is in the background.

As such, we have tried to "ignore" this aspect of the thread, but the quoteless posts keep it bubbling to the surface and limiting the dynamic range of our appreciation for this album's innate strengths and weaknesses.

 

You should check out the new Leonard Cohen record then. It's brilliant.

 

Mine arrived this morning. Another great Leonard Cohen album IMO.

Oh... and the vinyl sounds great.....and the CD ain't bad either. No science required to determine that.

 

Has anyone else had a problem with the vinyl - ticking through the first 2 tracks on side 1? I'm already on my 4th copy from amazon.

 

I've finally listened to this album.

As many have said before me, I also found that this is musically and lyrically a great album. I very much look forward to getting to know it better.

Unfortunately my listen also confirmed that the Loudness Wars have won.

When I joined this forum in 2006 this was one the main places that told me why the much of the music I had bought over the previous decade was not satisfying. Until about 2006 I had thought that 'remastered' meant better - better source tapes, better encoding. But in 2006 I learned about the Loudness Wars and that more often than not remastered meant compressed - great initial impact (as with this album) but as listening continues it is unsatisfying.

Back in 2006 when most people on this forum said something sounded great they meant great as our host, Steve Hoffman, would master - full dynamics and natural EQ.

Popular Problems is listenable. But it is certainly not a great audiophile recording. It sounds compressed, just as the DR value of 9 shows that it is (fortunately the EQ is pretty good.)

Back in 2006 it was clear that the Loudness Wars had won because the industry was doing it and most consumers were happy. But at least back then great sound quality was appreciated at forums such as this, and though an album like this would rightly be praised for its musical qualities, most would criticise the compressed sound.

But as this thread proves, these days most people posting here think Popular Problems sounds great. Hence the Loudness Wars have won even on this forum.

 

And have you listened to the album on vinyl....or only on CD?

The Loudness War doesn't affect me as a consumer of vinyl. It sounds excellent on that format.

 

I listened to the 96/24 version, which has the same DR as the CD.

As you say, vinyl often has a higher dynamic range than CD and Hi-Rez - what strange days we live in.

 

Yeah, I reported problems (same as you describe) a few pages back but it got lost in all the 'other' discussion. Even after a few RCM washes those ticks still persist. Well done United & whomever decided to use United to press this LP.

 

I'll tell Leonard. He'll be overjoyed you think his album is 'listenable'.

Sorry mate, you're doing my head in. Popular Problems is a beautiful, wise and profound album made by a peerless songwriter at the age of 80. If you're going to get all arsey because its DR is not stroking your audiophile nuts, well you need to have a word with yourself.

 

And thanks Bennyboy for proving my point - frequent posters here no longer care about audio quality even though that used to be one of the key discussion points on this forum.

 

Yeah it's too bad we loved the records before we were that they sounded bad here.

This record sounds amazing.

 

We do like audio quality but I respect the choices of the artist and producer.

 

By 'record' do you mean vinyl or CD or 24/96?

 

It's vinyl for me. But this is basically a home recording not the Record Plant type Studio

 

I've not heard the vinyl and I don't know the DR for vinyl. Perhaps the vinyl does have much better dynamics.

If this album had been recorded at home in the late 1970's onto cassette it would have had greater dynamics than the CD. So home recording has nothing to do with the lack of dynamics.

 

It sounds amazing? I think it sounds fine for the recording it is. I don't understand amazing.

 

Leonard's having a pretty good mid-career resurgence.

 

Ok it sounds exactly as the creators intended it to be. Happy now ?

 

How do you know that this is how Leonard wanted it to sound?

IF the vinyl has much better dynamics than the digital versions then you could argue that it was the vinyl that is how the artist wanted it to sound and thus the digital versions are the industry reducing the dynamics (loudness wars).

And even if the CD is how Leonard wants it to sound, the CD is still a victim to the loudness wars, and this can be lamented by those who prefer sound as it is mastered by Steve Hoffman.