Non Keith Moon drummer on Who By Numbers?

It literally happened to Pete, according to the man himself, quoted in the special Who issue of NME that came out a few years ago.

 

IIRC, the chair shot was chosen to hide his belly.

 

We all know that Pretty Purdie played on every record known to man. It's a fact.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense that Pete would have played drums himself? He plays well, in a style not too dissimilar to Keith's. Listen to his playing on the solo version of Pure and Easy from his debut solo and the original Who-era demos on Scoop and Lifehouse Elements. Sure, they could have gotten Nigel... or anyone really, especially if Moon was unavailable or unable to play, but why?

John Swenson gives the following recording dates in the liner notes.... Slip Kid was recorded 30 May 1975, same day as Squeeze Box, the day after Imagine A Man. Sessions for the album began with preliminary jamming on 4 April, then continued into June with final overdubs. It should be relatively easy using various Who reference books to see if Moon was out of the country at this time.

There's also an interview Keith gave to John Peel in Oct. 1975, days before release, promoting the album where he says it's the first time he's heard the songs with most of Roger's vocals on them. He played Side One of the album and never mentioned anything about not playing on Slip Kid...or any other track. But says he hadn't heard the final mixes, until this very interview. Ron

PS I can't find any reference that Keith had issues playing well during the sessions. It seems the major probem was with Pete, who was dreading turning 30....and apparenty was either drunk or drugged out much of the time. Roger and John both confirmed Pete was in bad shape much of the time...and Roger refused to sing However Much I Booze and Blue, Red and Grey because they were just too personal.

 

Keep in mind a lot of Slip Kid is lifted right from the demo, percussion-wise, so in that case you *are* hearing a lot of Pete. I'd have to go back and see exactly what was added on top of that, though.

I know there's one track that doesn't have the standard Glyn Johns drum sound. For some reason I'm thinking How Many Friends, although that might not be correct. Whatever the case, it seems likely the drums for that song (whatever one it is) were done at Eel Pie, possibly by Pete.

First I've heard of this story...

 

Do you really belive that,forgot how to play drums? I dont.

 

I was at that '76 Madison Square Garden show, and, to the best of my recollection, they used a backing tape (a la Baba, Won't Get Fooled, etc.) for the percussion part. Don't remember how much Keith actually played on this song live, not much me thinks. Recollections a bit hazy, though. It was a long time ago, and there was a lot of funny smoke in the air.

Jeff

 

Thanks for that Jeff!

 

I just listened to Slip Kid a few times. I think it's safe to assume parts of Pete's original demo remain in place. It just makes sense they would use Pete's drums or percussion, than getting another drummer in. For what it's worth, Dave Marsh's book doesn't mention Moon ever leaving the sessions.

The story floated here seems to be just that...a story. I've never heard this rumour before, and just who is the source protecting now? Keith has been dead for more than 25 years!! It's surely not unknown for guest musicians to go uncredited, but there's no reason for this to have been kept private all these years. One other thing....Pete ran the Who sessions, Keith would never have asked another drummer to help ''him" out of a jam. He would have told Pete and Pete would have made the arrangements. This is a non-story. Ron

 

The demo is on the Lifehouse box - there's no question that quite a bit of the Who version comes directly from it, including percussion. The only question is what, if anything, Keith added on top. I seem to remember some added drums that sounded like Keith, but I don't have either version at my disposal at the moment.

Random note - the remix of Slip Kid is missing a guitar part found on the original mix.

 

Hey Luke...we finally are in agreement . Really fellow members, just listen to the song. As Luk says, the undercurrents of Pete's demo are on the final mix. There are some flourishes on the Who version, easily could be Keith. It's NOT Nigel Olsson. I was listening to the LP version, the CD re-issue is not that well done...ha, no surprise there. Ron

 

Slip Kid is the best song on the album. Keith Moon not on drums????? Hogwash.

Moon is just following Petes demo.

Yup, following the demo tape just like the other two did.

 

Read Tony Fletcher's Moon bio, Dear Boy . You'll believe it then, I assure you. When Moon's thirst for booze became greater than his hunger to play the drums he went into serious decline. (I highly recommend the book for anyone interested in what is tantamount to a forensic psychological examination of Moon's tortured psyche. A fascinating read.)
Sort of off topic: Yesterday I listened to two live versions of "Sparks", one from Woodstock '69 and the other from Swansea, '76. In the former, Moon essentially leads the band with an uncanny ability to skirt in and around Townshend and Entwistle--the microphones don't pick it up so well, but just watch him in The Kids Are Alright. It's a dazzling display of panache and power---and, I daresay, grace. To paraphrase Townshend, Moon was always at his best when his playing served the song and not his ego.
On the latter version he is seriously flagging and holding the others back. He struggles to keep up.

I'd say it's Moon on "Slip Kid", but he's playing the careful, safe style favoured and encouraged by Glyn Johns on tracks like "Relay" and "905."

 

Tom, forgetting how to play drums and being unable to due to various drug/drinking issues are quite different. By all accounts, Keith got himself in good shape during the Who By Numbers sessions....the evils returned when the Who hit the road for the last quarter of 1975 and most of '76 basically to make some much-needed cash. Keith simply couldn't handle being on the road. During the tour his drinking was so bad, he passed out during gigs twice, cut his foot so bad (kicking a picture in his hotel room) he almost bled to death. Then again, some nights he was the "old Keith" . The Charlton gig is a good eample. It's far better than the Swansea gig...some good days, some bad. Roger also says that Pete was in worse shape than Keith. That many gigs, including those at Madison Square Garden, were terrible due to Pete's inability to play, sing...or even care. Ron

 

Great!!!

Next thing, someone will say that Peter Criss didn't play on Dynasty and Unmasked.

Anyhoo, I always wondered why the drums on Success Story sounded just like Someone Saved My Life Tonight...

 

I've got a boot video from the Summit (11/20/75) and Moon is on for sure. On the songs from Quad, he just rolls and rolls like the LP. A killer show, BTW!

He didn't have the extra pounds in 1975 as seen towards the end.

I saw the Who in '79 & '80 & 2000.

Funny story, if you seen a boot of the show from Chicago 12/79, I'm in it.

I was in the 11th row, you can see me and my buddy standing, you'd have to know us to find us, but we're there!

The ironic thing is we had tickets in the 42nd row, but the soundboard had taken up our seats, so they put us in the 11th row!

Joe

 

Anton Fig, anybody?

 

The version on the Who box has different drums on the break and some missing guitar compared to the original vinyl. Is it just a coincidence that this is the track the most in question?

 

I don't think they are different at all, inasmuch as Moon stopped playing drums entirely when the Who weren't touring and concentrated on the booze.
John Entwistle was quoted as saying that before the commencement of the By Numbers sessions, Moon had to re-learn the drums because he had lain fallow for so long. The band actually took a few days to jam together and help him re-familiarize himself with the kit.
I agree with you, Moon had some stunning performances on the '75/'76 tours, but, as I think Chris M said, by then the inevitable had set in: Moon was simply in the midst of a downward spiral from which he never recovered, in spite of an unsuccessful intervention and a couple of attempts at rehab.
And couldn't handle the road? Man, that was Moon's raison d'etre. According to Fletcher's book, that was the only time he was happy was when he was touring. The evils you allude to were not caused by the road, I think they are traceable to the disintegration of his marriage and the tragic incident involving his chauffeur, Neil Boland.

 

Different from the remix on the WBN reissue? I haven't listened to the box in a while...

 

I believe it's the same mix as on the WBN reissue. I haven't listened to it in some time but I wrote down notes and specific mixing anomolies and I didn't notice any difference between the box and the reissue. Speaking of mixing oddities.... Has Astley ever mentioned why he didn't always replicate the original mixes when mixing the reissues? I could make a lengthy list....but off the top of my head... New Song, Trick Of The Light, I'm The Face, Slip Kid, most of Odds and Sods, Eminence Front...I don't have my list with me but it's a long one. Any official reasons given? Ron

 

Are you sure it wasn't Eric "Stumpy Joe" Childs? Or was he already dead?

Seriously, the story doesn't ring true because if someone other than Moon played he would be of Townshend's choosing and not someone Moon flew over.

 

It was Bernard Purdie.

He filled in when Anton didn't show up.

 

I've always wondered about that myself.

 

Well... they're remixes. They're supposed to be a bit different.