Old VS. New Integrated Amp shootout

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BKphoto, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    So, those of us that have been in this hobby a while often hear people say "sounds good to me".

    Then some of us say outloud "compared to what ?"

    I wanted to know once in for all if I was listening to what I thought I was...

    Took me a while but I found a reasonably priced Integrated Amp that is modern with the same"ish" power rating...Is newer better...? Does my amp sound like a bag of cats and I just don't know it...?

    In this corner :
    The mid 70's Marantz 1152 DC (complete resto about 3 years ago)

    [​IMG]

    And in this other corner a Marantz PM 8005

    [​IMG]

    Both are roughly 70 watts into 8 ohms

    Let the games begin....

    Anyone wanna go out on a limb with a prediction...?
     
  2. Dougr33

    Dougr33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Sure, why not. The new amp will have more clarity and resolution. Whether or not your nice vintage speakers will make that more or less desirable I have no idea. Enjoy!
     
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  3. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    C'mon PM 8005!
    [​IMG]
     
  4. lobo

    lobo Music has always been a matter of Energy to me...

    Location:
    Germany
    The old one will win, as your ears are used to it. Then by accident you will discover that instead of the old one you were listening to the new one. You will check again with mixed results. The old one will still look better, but the new one has more in- and outputs. :)

    Some years ago I bought a modern amp. It has a remote control. I love it. It sounds nearly as good as my vintage amp. Best sounding amp I ever had was an old Harman Kardon (double mono cconstruction). It looked great two, but it made a loud plopp! every time I switched it on, so I sold it.
     
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  5. Newer isn't always better, but in the case of Marantz I'd have to say they are. They have a reputation of constantly striving to improve performance and their overall build quality is excellent as well. However, and because of their dedication and commitment, they also have several legacy products that are still highly sought after. I don't know if your 1152 DC is one of those though.
     
    CrazyCatz likes this.
  6. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    PM8005 will eventually "win out". Today's electronics are so much better than yesteryears designs and technology......Nobody watches TV on one of these bad boyz

    [​IMG]
     
  7. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    All right, ball is rolling (lets step back a second, this is a vinyl set up only)

    1st looks......the boss AKA the wife says " the silver one looks more interesting" I agree.

    The 8005 amp has a nice modern design and I like the minimalist layout, EXCEPT it has less settings, which I do use

    2, actually.... 1 is the mono setting (mostly a "jazz guy") and the 1152 also has what is called a "contour" dial which is another way to say variable loudness...

    99% of the time the 1152 has the tone bypass engaged and 2 clicks on the contour dial...

    I'm running the 8005 with the "input direct" engaged, which is the closest I can get...

    This is day 4 with the 8005...BTW
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  8. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    Sweet VA.
    8003 owner here...so ya' know what I'm betting on.
    :)
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  9. ukrules

    ukrules Professional Appreciator

    Location:
    Union, Kentucky
    Play the new one but look at the old one.
     
  10. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    Going across the board playing records I know front and back...

    first thing that hits is the lower noise floor...the 1152 isn't a noisy amp at all (stem to stern resto using top shelf components)

    but i can definitely hear a difference...

    spinning today:

    classic records pressings of - alan parsons I Robot - Miles D kind of blue - hank mobley 1568

    and first pressing of - the police regatta de blanc
     
  11. Alan Beasley

    Alan Beasley Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    Can I have the loser? :D
     
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  12. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    test is going through the weekend but....

    not sure the phono section likes my cart as much as the 1152 does....its a "Moving Iron" which has a tad less output than a traditional MM...
     
  13. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Like to hear comparison on a non phono input as well. Phono pre could dominate this competition.
     
    Shawn likes this.
  14. Socalguy

    Socalguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA
    What kind of noise are you (not) hearing? Hiss, hum? Was the 1152’s transformer ever replaced?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  15. riverrat

    riverrat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    Yes, this is a potential source of bias. Which of course is not to say that the "results" won't be BKphoto's subjective impressions anyway.

    That said, I think this is a great exercise. I will definitely be following this thread. I have often wondered about just this topic.

    My main amp is a restored Sansui AU-D11 II, circa 1984, toward the end of their "classic" era. But other than that component, my fascination with vintage stuff has waned a bit. Unless a person has quite deep pockets, and/or abilities to do the resto work themselves, keeping vintage gear running can get costly. Being a child of the 60s and 70s, I love the way a lot of it looks, and the impressive build quality. But I recently sold off the big brother to the 1152 DC- a 1300DC. It was an amazing piece of equipment, but incredibly complex; I felt I should divest myself of it while it still worked 100%.

    I'll shut up now, since I'm derailing the thread. More from BKphoto please!
     
  16. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    its a vinyl only set up....

    if you turn volume up 10, 11:00 (nothing on but amp) you will hear faint noise in speakers, (ear up to speaker) a foot away you don't hear it

    did this test with 8005 and its dead quiet

    Transformer was tested while resto going on and was well within factory specs...which is a good thing because they don't make them like that anymore

    one of the rarest Marantz amps....although a resto on that monster would be quite expensive..
     
  17. slcaudiophile

    slcaudiophile Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Salt Lake City

    the older likely uses mosfets and is not a chip based amp. both decent but i would say the older one.
     
  18. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    If the listener knows what they are listening to, we know the results tend to skew towards the one that they are predisposed to favor.
     
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  19. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    My money is on the 8005 winning in the technicalities but the 1152 would have more coloration and muscle. The 8005 is probably an over-achiever compared to other modern amps in the same price range!
     
  20. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    trying to keep a neutral position....will be switching back saturday...then will change again next week...

    not in a rush...
     
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  21. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    No Phono Pre Amp in the house?

    Because you can run that into an Aux input (any line input, really) to check Amp not phono stage.

    Also, might get a better result as cart matching will be external to the amps.

    I am pulling for the vintage one, myself. It's got more class.
     
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  22. CraigVC

    CraigVC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I agree with those suggesting that you're risking a shootout more of the internal phono preamp, than the integrated amplifiers themselves. I recommend picking up a modestly-priced phono preamp for $150-250 (plenty of threads to help you pick a good one for that price), and using that with both amps in your shootout, so that all the variables remain the same and you can truly compare the amplifiers of both integrated units.

    EDIT: For example, you run the risk of choosing the lesser amplifier, just because it has an internal phono pre-amp that you prefer the sound of.
     
    F1nut likes this.
  23. Socalguy

    Socalguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA
    It may well be that the OP prefers the sound of the internal phono pre-amp of one over the other. That’s fine. He’s comparing integrated amps, not just amplifer sections.
     
  24. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Hes comparing phono stages> pre amp>amplifiee, all in one.
     
  25. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    He mentioned one liking his cart more than the other. Indicating to me that they have different input requirements.

    Just trying to give him a way to actually compare them while maintaing the vinyl only setup.
     

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