Over inflated record sales figures (Earth Wind and Fire, Thriller and others)

A record label/artist has to think it's worth their while to request and pay for an RIAA audit. And, according to the RIAA site, they count the "net", after returns.

The RIAA numbers could be way off. Take, for example, Deep Purple, just inducted into the RRHOF. The Hall induction blurb claims a huge amount of album sales. I did this a while ago, but the RIAA numbers were just a fraction of the claim. I don't think DP is particularly concerned. Or look at Dylan's. I did the numbers once and I think he was 40% or so of his claimed sales. Again, if I recall correctly, Journey was exceptionally high. Maybe 70%+ certified against claimed sales.

 

I'm well aware of the many huge artists who barely ever make it in the US but are huge all over outside of the states. I also mentioned some that are really big in the US but still bigger outside of the US such as Queen and ABBA. I am referring to those acts who have their greatest success in the US, regardless of where they are from. If you were to take the US sales away from those artists, it would be significant and legacy altering. Thriller is a great example. It has sold half of it's totals in the US. Look at Zeppelin and The Beatles US sales and compare them to threir combined totals elsewhere. Elvis, Michael Jackson's overall sales, Maddona, The Stones, AC/DC etc. I know they've sold millions all over. But the US totals is the primary percentage.

 

Wacko Jacko? Nothing will overtake Thriller. It will remain the greatest selling album in the United States until the end of time.

 

Oh, but "B'z have sold 80M in Japan alone"-- that's like an act selling 200M in the US alone! If Japan's little secret gets out, look out. Thriller is not safe

 

That's across 28 albums and 50 singles. I guess I don't get the joke.

 

From the info I've read, The Eagles Greatest Hits was certified at 16 million in 1990 and then 27 million in 1999.

Since people were putting on their tweed caps over Thriller's numbers perhaps their next mission will be how The Eagles Greatest Hits sold 13 million copies in the '90s. I've seen explanations ranging from Don Henley's solo career, Glenn Frey's solo career and later Hell Freezes Over but a million at that juncture seems a bit interesting.

 

I think most people who owned Eagles Greatest Hits owned it on vinyl, 8 track for the car then cassette for the car, wore it out then rebought a fresh cassette then rebought it on cd. Meaning it's been owned by the same crowd around 5 different times. A greatet hits contains so many signature songs for one price. It's no surprise that the casual Eagles fan owns one of 2 Eagles combos. Either Greatest Hits 1 and 2 or Greatest Hits 1 and then the studio albums Hotel California and The Long Run which pretty much make up the hits of Greatest Hits 2. I don't know if Thriller was ever the driving music on tape Eagles was. At least not for those long road trips

 

There is no doubt in my mind those sales figures could likely be true.
Lets be realistic, MJ was in one of the early bubblegum groups, he could sing and dance great, and he became one of the most bizarre entertainers on the planet along with having an obviously massive publicity machine. Nobody has ever been promoted like him. He was to the 80s what the hula hoop was to the 50s and 60s. He was both a talent AND an oddity.
Aside from, the guy had some of the most talented people in the music industry at his disposal, his handlers obviously didn't mind shelling out the big bucks for musicians, choreographers, stage props and gimmicks, and producers, arrangers and songwriters.

The guy had a LOT of talent behind him as well as a massive marketing machine.
And most importantly, unlike kids of the 50s and 60s, he appealed to children whose parents had the money to toss away to keep junior happy. He appealed to just the right age group at just exactly the right time in history.

 

No doubt a large part of the immediate sales figures for Hotel California had a lot to do with the success of GH.
Chances are it sold a lot of copies to those who had GH and were expecting HC to be as good.

 

Slim Whitman sold over 120 million records. It said so on TV.

 

I think it likely had to do with the fact that it is one of the best GH packages ever done and covered the bands most creative period, coupled with the fact that country stations and fans were no longer biased against those damn long haired hippie types and suddenly country artists gave the Eagles credit where it was due.
I doubt most who listened to pop radio and knew knew of GF and GHs pop hits even associated them with the Eagles.

 

It's been overtaken before though, in the US by Eagles Greatest Hits and for a long time too.
http://www.billboard.com/articles/n...iller-approaches-eagles-all-time-sales-record
People used to say it would never happen but it did and Eagles Greatest Hits is right now only 3 million behind and with the death of Frey it could increase in sales.
But Thriller benefited largely from digital downloads in 09 whereas now that isn't nearly as much as an option in 2016.
Basically had Jackson not died Thriller would still be behind Eagles Greatest Hits in the US
I do agree though that globally Thriller will always be tops.
Not just because of it's sizable lead outside of the states but Jackson's continued appeal abroad.

 

I am not sure that in the age of downloading that we should even still be considering "sales' figures considering all the free music that has been passed around along with that music has become very cheap and far more easily accessible.
I am not so sure that Thriller will always be so valued. It was a hit at the time, but I can't picture it as having staying power in any long term situation. It isn't likely there will be a lot of cover versions of those songs.

I suspect the first 4 Eagles albums and the singles from them will stick around for a long time, and keep generating interest mostly because the songs and style isn't self dating. After all, you could do a convincing version of Witchy Woman in some extreme bluegrass style all the way to some cookie monster vocal distorted-all-to-hell metal version and pull it off.
And it isn't largely dependent on singing and dancing videos and image.

 

Interesting. So, since Michael can only die once and there are six Eagles still alive, sounds like EGH will pull ahead for good at some point.

Sorry, Johnny

 

Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' Becomes First-Ever 30 Times Multi-Platinum Album




Michael Jackson's Thriller has become the first album ever to be certified 30 times multi-platinum for U.S. sales, marking more than 30 million sales in the States.

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) made the announcement Wednesday (Dec. 15) with the Estate of Michael Jackson, Epic Records and Legacy Recordings, as the new milestone continues Jackson's reign as the most selling artist of all time with over 100 million sales for Thriller worldwide and 1 billion total sales to his credit.

"RIAA has awarded Gold & Platinum records on behalf of the music business for nearly 60 years, but this is the first time an artist has crossed the 30X multi-Platinum plateau," RIAA chairman and CEO Cary Sherman said in a statement. "We are honored to celebrate the unique status of Thriller in Gold & Platinum history. What an exceptional achievement and testament to Thriller's enduring spot in our hearts and musical history."

Jackson's Thriller was released Nov. 30 1982 and spent nearly 2 1/2 years on the Billboard album chart with 37 weeks at No. 1, holding the modern day record. It was also the first album in history to spend its first 80 weeks in the album chart's top 10, which has only been replicated once since.

The Quincy Jones and Jackson-produced LP was also the first ever certified RIAA 20 times multi-platinum, doing so after 112 weeks on the album chart -- less than two years in all. Seven tracks off the album became top 10 singles with three -- "Beat It," "Billie Jean" and "Thriller" -- topping the singles chart.

Worldwide, Thriller topped charts in nearly every market, hitting No. 1 in the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Australia, Denmark, Belgium, South Africa, Spain, Ireland, New Zealand, Canada and apartheid South Africa. The album won a record-setting 8 Grammys with nominations in 12 categories -- another first.

"It is crystal clear that Michael Jackson is simply the greatest and biggest artist of all time," Epic Records chairman and CEO LA Reid said in a statement. "Not only are his charts hits and sales stats staggering, but his pure musicality was other-worldly. Thriller was groundbreaking and electrifying...it was perfection. I am extremely proud that Michael is the heart and soul of Epic Records and he will forever remain the one-and-only King of Pop."

http://www.billboard.com/articles/c...ael-jackson-thriller-30x-multi-platinum-album


Congrats MJ!

 

Another thing about MJs appeal, he was more about being a visual performer than anything else, that was his ace in the hole. The music and songs were just a vehicle for that.
That being the case, MTV was made just for him. He was the perfect poster child for MTV. He could have been singing and dancing to songs from old 1950s commercials and still would have been a hit. He had the perfect stage act for video.
Think about all the karaoke strippers now who shake their asses with backup dancers to very basic drum beats and music.

Who do all of them have to thank for that? MJ. I don't think many consider this, but he invented that.

 

Let's look at the worldwide phenomenon Beatles-- who, with dozens of unique albums and scores of singles officially released in the US over the course of 50+ years, "only" sold 175M, to a population 2.5X the size of Japan. Laughing yet?

The science of tabulating music sales is only slightly more sound than alchemy. The truth is out there, but you-- like Mulder-- will never find it

 

I suppose the underlying elephant in the room here would be the likelihood that intentionally exaggerating sales figures could possibly make sales skyrocket and therefore making the exaggeration self fulfilling.
And if that ever indeed was a sales tactic, and if so was it illegal, immoral, or offensive to a special interest group?
It seems to me doing so would be a dangerous practice, if for no other reason because if sales didn't skyrocket there would be the issue of taxation on the stated sales.

 

Thriller actually went to #2 on the Comprehensive album Chart twice in 2008 with the release of Thriller 25 and then again after MJ's death sent his catalog up the chart... at this point they were ineligible to re-enter Billboard because of age but after MJ's death and the Beatles reissues in 2009 the chart rules changed to allow older albums to chart.

According to this post here. Through December 2015 Thriller has scanned 6.60 milion copies since Soundscan was implemented in 1991. Making it the #78 biggest selling album of the past 25 years. Ranking about it as pre-Soundscan era catalog sellers are Marley's Legend (#7 with 11.92 million), Dark Side Of The Moon (#23 with 9.95 million sold), James Taylor's Greatest Hits (#63 with 7.33 million sold), Jimmy Buffett's Songs You Know By Heart (#75 with 6.75 million), Credence's Chronicle (#77 with 6.70 million). That would put it as the sixth biggest selling pre-Soundscan album (7th if you count the Queen compilation from 1992 that shares a name with a 1981 collection) so that did fair rather well in the CD age.

 

Naturally, but Thriller is such a massive seller that's still a small percentage of how many people rebought it, and many may have been buying it for the first time which is great but that also means the original audience wasn't as motivated as during it's prime. This of course applies to other acts as well, not just Jackson. Even his own greatest huts probably limited it some in the CD era.

 

Michael Jordan? lol
Yeah this is all good and it's a great album and it hit at the right time.
I remember before Mtv started showing the Billie Jean video that it was getting play inbetween movies on Showtime and HBO because Mtv was more Rock and Roll.
Billie Jean was a pretty cool video so once they chose to start rotating it, the album really took off beyond the Off the Wall sales which were darn good anyway.
I think Mtv was sort of motivated with Beat It because of the heavy guitar work by Eddie Van Halen and that is still a great video, probably better than Thriller IMHO.
Thriller the album was huge after this but once the mini movie Thriller video came out in Dec, everyone started buying the album as sort of a soundtrack to the great videos.
I remember thinking it was sort of like the Grease soundtrack to some extent.
Thriller sounds good today.
I never cared much for BAD or Dangerous.
There was something missing and it didn't help me that Jackson started grabbing his crotch over and over in these days.
I realize acts change but The Jackson of the Thriller era was really good, really unique and regardless of the sales after that, I don't think he ever got that back.

 

I'll reiterate again IT IS AN OPINION. I've been clear on that since my first post. I'm not disputing the sales of the album. 30 million, 50 million, 4 billion. Whatever figure you and anyone else wants to use I'm okay with. My point was an aside to the OP topic. Last time I checked, topics sprout many, many offshoot points as discussions evolve. Full stop.

 

I don't know about other countries, but in Japan, I remember that CD collectors stated that the first press Thriller CD (CBS/Sony 35-8P) had more pressings (by far) than any other title. This can be determined by the matrix numbers used on old Sony pressed CD's, apparently. Remember that it was first released on CD in Japan only a month or two after it was issued on vinyl, so it wasn't really a reissue. Wikipedia has Thriller with estimated global sales of 65 Million. That sounds about right, even a little low considering that US certified sales are 32 Million.

Also, remember that Thriller 25 hit no. 1 in a number of countries when it was released (before his death!!) - which made me wonder who doesn't already own it? It's a pretty popular album.

 

Don't count out AC/DC - it's like a line from a movie: every time a strip joint opens, someone buys another copy of Back in Black.

 

True, but in the US even after the 25th anniversary bump it still trailed Eagles Greatest Hits.
It was his passing that put it over the top in the states.
Basically it too two fresh campaigns, the 25th and his death to get it there.
No big deal, as it was already tops globally but in the US Eagles Greatest Hits didn't really use any special marketing during the 2000s.
Plus the digital download era which was prime in 09 had a huge affect on Thriller sales when he died.