P-Mount Cartridges

@needlestein

The suggestions above regarding Ortofon cartridges is good advice. I have the OMP10 and while the overall tonality is very good, it is not by any stretch of the imagination a great tracker. My next move will be to purchase the Stylus 40 (Fritz Gyger) for it. I need to have some high quality Pmount backups for my SL-M3 and the OMP series has a great upgrade path - to your point.

My "go to" was a Shure M92E with (original Boron cantilever) JICO SAS and the sound was incredible - the best I ever heard via my personal setup. That thing would track anything and that is no exaggeration. Despite JICO saying that ALL their cantilevers are longer than T4P spec (i.e. 20MM) I measure exactly 20MM from the back of the cart to stylus tip. Unfortunately, I had a malfunction with my TT (TT since fixed) that caused that stylus to get damaged, so it's over Johnny.

Since then, I have installed the LP Gear T4P VS with Shibata Stylus. That one sounds real good and also measures 20MM. My only complaint (albeit, nitpicking) is that it is considerable and audibly lower output than the Shure (3MV vs 5MV.)

I also have one of those Pickering XL-33u's (Stereohedron) that stirred some internet noise last year. Sadly, mine also has the twisted or skewed cantilever issue which is a shame.

 

I had precisely the same problem using a new AT cart with a Technics SL-QD33. The recommended tracking force was 1.5, but it was causing unbeliveable sibilance. Thankfully the unit allows tracking force adjustment. A reset to 2 helped immeasurably.

 

I'm surprised Grado gets such a mixed reaction. I am looking for a new P-Mount, and found these fantastic shoot out videos on the Grado cartridges (although they are not the p-mount versions):

Black:



Green:

MM Cartridges US$90-120: Grado Green REVIEW

Red:

Grado Red - Group C cartridges' ($170- $200) reviews and shoot-out

One person's opinion of course, but a very respectable showing to come out strongly in various price categories.

Gold does not do so well:

Grado Gold - Group D cartridges' ($250- $300) REVIEWS and Shoot-Out Series

Wow. I really like what this guy is doing.

 

Interesting vid. I considered a Grado - maybe a blue or a red - but decided against it because of quite a few negative reviews on the 'net.

 

Just as with standard mount cartridges carts sound different on different TTs. I had a Grado Green on my Denon DP-7f many years ago that did not sound as good as the Audio Technica AT311EP it had been purchased to replace. Inner groove distortion was especially noticeable on the Grado / Denon combo when compared to the AT. On another turntable the Grado may be a better match. That's always the issue with carts regardless of cartridge mount type.

 

I've realigned azimuth on many of those DTL-2S (and plenty of other Stanton and/or Pickering styli) for free to anyone who wants to send it to me with another couple bucks return shipping. Takes me all of five minutes--maybe. Really probably about thirty seconds. PM me if you're interested. That's too nice of a stylus to let it sit unused because azimuth is a little off.

However, as always, I make no guarantees and if the stylus is damaged in the attempt, or if it gets lost in the mail, all risk is on the part of the original owner (you). So far, so good. No complaints at all. Not bad for a free service to the community.

I've done my own D81 (a couple of them) with skewed azimuth, but that's a hairy job. If someone wanted me to do one of those, I definitely cannot take on the risk of breakage. But my record with those is 2-0.

 

The later D71EE styli are a problem. They were made by Stanton in Florida by using up all the .3 x .7 cantilevers they had. They put them in all of the cartridges to use up parts. So, the late Florida Stanton 881S "Stereohedron" is not a Stereohedron at all, but a bonded .3 x .7. elliptical. The late Stanton 681EEE is not a Stereohedron or a .2 x .7 nude elliptical as it had always traditionally been, but a bonded .3 x .7 elliptical. One just sold on ebay ostensibly new in the box for $405. Yikes. Way too much as far as I'm concerned from a performance standpoint.

However, the D71EE do shape up nicely with the application of additional tracking force, and well worth it. I love the two coil bodies (500, Pickering V15 and P Mount counterparts). Some people call them less refined than their four coil cousins (680/681; XV-15) but I find them to be more open and immediate, too--closer to the music whereas the latter are closer to the studio. I wouldn't hesitate to put one on a 1/2" adapted cartridge or a 500 or V15 on a 1/2" arm. But for strict P Mount T4P use, stick to OEM Pickering or the Stanton D70E or basically any other OEM stylus with that shape.

 

Yeah - I had a Grado Blue that I used for perhaps a single album side on my SL-M3. It sounded awful, just terrible. Picture a cassette deck out of alignment playing a tape recorded on another misaligned deck. I even got it to track at about 1.7 which despite the printed specs, is where many folks on the web say it tracks best. I even emailed Grado to verify that and they confirmed that higher forces than the printed spec are not only allowed, but may yield better results.

 

Like this?


I think the L737-E- is a four coil 680 family model - it sounds wonderful

 

Yes, that is the one. And it does sound wonderful.

Although that stylus appears to be a generic for the Pickering DTL line, and specifically what's known as the "tall" stylus. It's the same shape as the classic Stanton 600/Pickering V15 Phase IV/Micro, etc. If that generic actually works at the P Mount T4P standard 1.25g, then that could be a good recommendation. I've never gotten one of those generics yet. However, in the photo, I see that it's being used in an adapted cartridge, also missing the screw. Whoops.

 

I recently found what seems to be a rare bird: an AT132EP with it's original .2 x .7 nude elliptical stylus. Initially I was going to use it with the adapter on my stock SL1200MKII but it didn't seem to be a good match. But damn it's a sweet sounding cart. I put it up for sale for about a week and then decided just to keep it in case I need a p-mount of this quality in the future.

 

You probably can plug that into a 1/2" AT body since a favorite upgrade for those with that P Mount body is to use a modern ATN440-MLb or even an ATN150MLX and now on up to the ATN150SA stylus. If you have an AT-100e on up, you should be able to do it. I'm not at home right now or I'd see if my P Mount stylus fits into a 1/2" body. I can't imagine what would keep it from working since the opposite swap is possible.

Anyone know for sure?

 

In other words I could use this p-mount stylus on my AT150MLX when that one needs replacing? Interesting.

Because I have to say, this .2 x .7 nude elliptical sounded pretty damn close to a microline when it was tracking properly.

 

Yes it is the aforementioned LPGear DTL-2 elliptical replacement that sounds poor at P-mount tracking force but sounds wonderful at 2.25G. I have a Pickering TL-2 in the Technics SL-J33 here with a generic 680 replacement stylus that I got from "Voice Of Music" (which tracks perfectly at 1.25G in that P-mount linear tracker). I could potentially swap the cartridge bodies between the two but I don't know if it would make a difference.

Missing the screw on purpose. Since it's in an adapter for a 1/2" mount I can accommodate the slight difference in weight by not having the screw. This means I can pull it out in a second and install another P-Mount cart that I have here for worn or otherwise abused records. Since they're both P-Mount all I have to do is adjust the counterweight to make the swap - the alignment is always the same.

 

Since you have the top body, you might as well try to pop the stylus in, yourself. My memory is foggy, though. I think I tried it, and it went in, but getting it out again was tough because it wasn't easy to grab, but that might have been with the ATN440MLb on the P Mount cartridge.

 

That works. I see there's a method to the madness. Many purists already fault P Mount because of the socket attachment with the screw being too flexible, but it doesn't bother me. I certainly can't hear a difference with the screw in or out. With an adaptor, it definitely is more fiddly to swap cartridges because you also have to deal with the nut on the other side.

 

And there's no problem playing records sans the screw? The cart doesn't come loose?

 

No it's quite positively clicked in - maybe I just have a good adapter. I believe it's the adapter that shipped with my AT311EP. Check that - I think it may be the adapter that originally shipped with that 737-E- cart circa 1983.

 

i have an old technics table and run a grado gold "P" with an upgraded "8MZ" stylus. sounds really, really nice.

 

I was introduced to Pickering/Stanton cartridges by Mr. Needlestein and will be forever grateful. Currently the cartridge I use and enjoy most is a p-mount Pickering TLE with a DE stylus on a Technics SL-1700. It's Goldilocks.

 

So, if you had to buy one in production or easily available new / NOS P-Mount cartridge, what would it be?

 

Shure M92E upgraded to a NOS Shure OEM stylus. And despite JICO recently divulging that none of their SAS styli are T4P compliant, the original boron cantilever SAS sounded wonderful on the M92E until I damaged it in an unfortunate accident

 

Audio Technica AT311EP is compelling. I'd try a Grado first - particularly if your table allows for heavier tracking than the published P-mount spec.

However - check Ebay- there are P-mount carts for days there for next to nothing including the ubiquitous Stanton/Pickering models that so many seem to love, and there are a plethora of aftermarket stylus options from many vendors. I got the AT90 in my living room for $5.95. With a $50 Pfansteihl hyper-elliptical stylus I'd guess that it would hold its own just fine against anything new. It sounds very, very good. I believe that all these ubiquitous A-T cart bodies are similar if not the same.

 

Yeah, they're the bees' knees. In addition to the Stanton L737-E- in my avatar I have a Pickering TL-2 in my Technics SL-J33 linear tracker that sounds like a million bucks.

 

If NOS counts from a major online retailer counts under the "or easily available new" option, then I'd strongly recommend the following:

ADC PSX-30 cartridge with half-inch mount adaptor

But on ebay, there's also a guy sitting on 9 Empire 280LT that he's selling for just over $30. Mine's coming in the mail. I can't find any specs on it. Searching for replacement styli for info suggests that it's a simply conical, but the instruction manual in the photo clearly says "elliptical" but no dimension is given. When it comes, I'll hook it up and post more info.