P-Mount Cartridges

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by iDigital, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. needlestein

    needlestein Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I am totally NOT surprised. Grado customer service is lacking. Their information machine in general is bad. For example, the paperwork that comes with these cartridges is just the old Prestige1 paperwork, so it's wrong. The resistance readings, for one, are different. The listed reading in the spec sheet is 475 ohms, but the cartridge reads about 680 ohms, which is probably the most major change/difference of the two series. Secondly, Grado gives out the same paperwork for all models. I have a Green1, Blue1, Gold and now Black2 for which I have original spec paperwork. The paperwork specs are all the same despite them all having differing specs when found online.
     
  2. PooreBoy

    PooreBoy ~Well Respected Man~

    Location:
    East TN
    That's great! Please let us know how it sounds in comparison to the last version.
     
  3. needlestein

    needlestein Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    The new Prestige Black2 is improved over the old version by having a much more present high end, just like what I’ve observed with the 1/2” version. The sound is much more balanced and musical. This is a fantastic cartridge. I never like the old Prestige and Prestige1 series, but I preferred the old Signature 8MR. These sound like the 8MR to me. Love it.
     
  4. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    These are broken graphics for me. I would love to see the pictures.
     
  5. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Good to know.
     
  6. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    Would love to hear a comparison needledrop :).
     
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  7. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    I would also. My only experience with Grado P-mounts was with a Green that I had on a Denon DP-7F. It had fairly poor inner groove performance but sounded pretty good on the outside grooves. Would like to hear their newer offering.
     
  8. needlestein

    needlestein Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    One of these days when I can get that all set up, I could do needledrops. But don't count your chickens!
     
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  9. Soundgarden

    Soundgarden Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, Oregon
    I've got a Green1 and have been interested to hear what folks think of the 2s. This is the first actual feedback I've come across. Curious... is your Black2 bringing out the high-end more as in making it brighter? My system is pretty high-end oriented as it is. If the new Grado carts are bright in comparison to the old ones I may think twice about getting a 2 despite good reviews. Thanks.
     
  10. needlestein

    needlestein Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Definitely much better high end, but these are still quite a ways off from anything approaching bright. Not to worry. They still have the Grado house sound—just I can’t imagine someone hearing what I’m hearing and calling it “dead,” or “lifeless.” But my Prestige and Prestige1 cartridges strike me as “dead” and “lifeless.” I wouldn’t say the Prestige2 is necessarily “lively,” but much, much improved over dead and lifeless.
     
  11. Soundgarden

    Soundgarden Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bend, Oregon
    Thanks for elaborating. I'd definitely going to pick one up to compare with my Green1. Question is whether I go Green2 or upgrade to a "higher" color... have you tested out the gold yet? I saw in another post that it looked like you might be planning on doing that. Thanks.
     
  12. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Hello all. New member here. I recently bought the SS445E/U based on what I read here and am really impressed with it on my Technics SL-7. I inherited this turntable and hadn't really spent much time with it. It previously had an AT VS215e that was pretty nice but sounded rather dull. I'm guessing that was due to age. The SL-7 had been relegated to shop duty in the garage. I had a Technics SL-Q2 with a variety of cartridges (including AT440mlb) in my main system (Marantz PM7001 and Monitor Audio Bronze 6 speakers), but had been itching to try the SL-7 on the main system if I could find a good value on a cartridge. When I read about the SS445E/U I jumped.

    I had never been happy with my vinyl playback in this system. I tried a variety of cartridges and a couple of phono stages and it was always either too detailed with good soundstage but lacking bass (at440mlb), or too smooth and lacking soundstage and dynamics (Shure m97xe). My favorite previously was actually a Nagatron 210E which was a fairly good mix of detail, great mid range, but lacking bass. Fairly frustrating. I found myself streaming Spotify more often than spinning records. Finally when I put the SL 7 in the mix with the new AT cart I finally had a eureka moment. Soundstage, good mid-range AND bass. Top end is very nice but not shrill. Maybe slightly rolled off compared to the AT440mlb and a tad less detailed. But I'm ok with that. I can crank it up and it doesn't hurt my ears and at low volumes still manages to sound great.

    I also purchased an AT450 from the same seller, but have been so satisfied with the SS445E/U I haven't tried it. If anyone is on the fence just do it. Money very well spent.
     
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  13. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    I don't have the SS445E/U, but I'm really happy with the AT450. It seems very tonally accurate to me.

    I am still tempted to try a SS445E/U or Grado Black2 for comparison.
     
  14. cjc

    cjc Forum Resident

    Doesn't the AT450 and the SS445E/U share the identical nude stylus? Do the bodies also look the same? Which is better?
     
  15. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I have not done a side by side comparison of the 450 and the ss445. Visually, the bodies look quite different. User @PhilBiker did a direct comparison back on page 6 and even posted some needledrops that compare the two. They sound fairly different to my ears.
     
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  16. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    The cartridge housing and stylus mount are completely different - even the cantilever looks quite different between the two. However, the diamond itself look to be identical. They do not sound the same. Both sound very good, but the SS445E/U is the clear winner.

    Mine as well. Those needle drops were shared on a free sharing site so they may have expired by now.
     
  17. cjc

    cjc Forum Resident

    I just ordered the SS445E/U. I believe it's a renamed AT122EP, and will accept many different stylus. Thanks for the info provided.
     
  18. joselito

    joselito Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Jico is becoming more and more enigmatic to me, when it comes to P-mount.
    I believe Jico ceased production of the "boron" SAS version (pre-neoSAS) in 2016, and then it restarted production in 2017. I've only learned boron SAS was back in early 2018, when it was suspended again (temporarily I hope).

    So I have two doubts about that:
    1) Considering P-mount in particular, is the "new" boron SAS (2017-) the same product the "old" boron SAS (-2016) was? If I am not wrong, before sales were suspended in late 2017, the "new" boron SAS cost less than the "old" one in 2016, and that made me wonder if they were different products.
    2) I have learned here that the P-mount neoSAS have wrong cantilever size (too long), and it is bad news to me as I was ready to buy one. But what about the "boron" SAS, either "pre" or "post" 2016 units: is the cantilever size correct (or at least better than the neoSAS)?

    If I may post it here, I also have a doubt about Technics P-mount cartridges that's been bugging me for many years.
    I am aware styluses like EPS-22ED (or 202), EPS-23ES , EPS-24CS sound different, as there are different stylus shapes and even different cantilever material involved. But what about their (interchangeable) cartridges, are their audio performances different too?
    I suppose that, for instance, the EPS-202 (boron) is a better stylus than the EPS-24, but I wonder if the 202 cartridge is also better than the 24 cartridge. Would a 202 stylus sound worse on a 24 cartridge, and would a 24 stylus sound better on a 202 (or 22) cartridge?
    I have no significant experience on that matter, but I was able to test all combinations with 23ES stylus, 23 cartridge, 24CS stylus and 24 cartridge. To me, the 23ES would sound better than the 24CS regardless of the cartridge chosen. On the other hand, the 23ES stylus would sound pretty much the same either on a 23 cartridge or on a 24 cartridge, and the 24CS would also sound the same either on a 24 cartridge or on a 23 cartridge. So at least from my limited experience, those cartridges would behave the same way, and the whole difference would depend on the stylus...
     
  19. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    With ebay's 20% off sale today, I purchased a SS445E/U and a ATU4040 as a spare (AT450 clone I believe).

    Looking forward to a shoot-out :)
     
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  20. Donal

    Donal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I couldn't resist. After reading this thread , I just had to pull the trigger on a SS445E/U. It was my understanding that you had to spend $75 to get the 20% discount. I was tempted, but could not bring myself to order three carts.
     
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  21. Donal

    Donal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I ordered the SS445E/U thinking , from the posts that it had a nude mounted stylus. I saw the paperwork posted. It said it was a nude. Just was checking the AT450 he's selling, and I see that the paperwork with it says that it is a nude stylus. Are both of them nude? I didn't see anything on the auction about the SS445E/U being nude. Wonder what's going on?
     
  22. Donal

    Donal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    So, both are nudes. Ok. I think it's time for a nap.
     
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  23. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    They both are nude. There's at least one other A-T NOS model that's also nude mount as well on his site.
     
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  24. Donal

    Donal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Yep. Just went back and looked at the SS445E/U auction again, and on a picture of the box, it says that it is a .3 x .7 biradial nude.
     
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  25. Joyoo

    Joyoo Senior Member

    This is a very nice thread to read, I'm now spinning with a Technics P202c cartridge on a SL-7 turntable. I got very excited reading about alternative cartridges so I just bought AT450 cartridge on Ebay. No I have to wait for two weeks until it arrives....:waiting:
     
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