Parliament-Funkadelic vs Earth, Wind & Fire

I'm wondering if you ever listened to 'Mighty Mighty' or 'Fair But So Uncool'. EWF could bring the funk as much as anybody. You make it sound as if Maurice White was trying to con people into buying his records. I know from your previous posts that you love your funk/RnB/hip hop and are deeply knowledgeable on the topic but your assessment of EWF doesn't hold much water. Blaming them for not being 'queasy/nasty/funky' is colossally missing the point. They had never made that their modus operandi. White was schooled in jazz and blues and gospel from his Memphis upbringing Chicago days with Ramsey Lewis and I think that shows throughout their albums.
Possibly they were a little too closely allied to a rock aesthetic that Clinton never played up to. I think their commercial success ultimately narrowed their musical ideas and record execs pressured them for more output in the I Am mold. True, they were never the iconoclasts P-Funk were and they suffered from the disco backlash that their visual image veered a little too close to at times. But we are not talking DeBarge here. I'm pretty lukewarm about their output after Raise, calling it quits then would have been no shame, but 'yacht rock'? Be for real.

 

George Clinton was one of the most rock-influenced black artists of the 70s. Check "Maggot Brain" or any of the Funkadelic LPs on Westbound for proof.

I think it would be more proper to say that EWF were closely allied to a POP aesthetic that Clinton never played up to...

 

Went for Parliament/Funkadelic. I'm not very familiar with EWF's earlier output, just the hits. But I saw a televised live concert and thought their sound was pretty thin. I did, however, see P/F live, shortly after One Nation Under A Groove, and that was one of the best shows I've seen.

 

P-Funk is my third favorite band. That being said, those early EWF albums had a great funk fusion vibe.

 

Apropos of what? The Isley's went from a Jackie Wilson/Drifters sound and image to Hendrix on 3+3 and sounding like Prince by the time they made The Real Deal. Everybody steals from everybody.

Kind of puts a torpedo to your good ship 'Credibility'.. At least you were honest about it.

 

Good point. I stand corrected. I was looking too much from the point of view of the way Maurice White went about making his records, using Wally Heider, Steve Lukather and Jeff Porcaro and Jay Graydon. 'Pop' fits as well. And yes Clinton used the rock aesthetic, I seem to have a blind spot about that. No denying it's influence on Maggot Brain.

 

You are taking it way too seriously, as Clinton was only making a mild humorous jab at E, W & F, as he did respect them and Maurice White. It is not like we are not talking The Gallagher Brothers(OASIS) mean spirited taunts(one of them-probably Liam, saying he hoped Damon Albarn died form AIDS) with their Rival, BLUR(Damon Albarn) in the height of their Brit-Pop Wars during the mid 1990s for who reached #1 when a Single or Album was released. Although, Liam Gallagher singing 'Boys & Girls' to mock that BLUR song was funny at the time(kind of like Morris Day & the Time singing 'Let's Go Crazy' to Prince as they walked passed his dressing room). Or when Albarn started Gorillaz Cartoon Band in 2000 when he wanted to move on from BLUR to try a new music style, and Liam called his cartoon band "Music for me 5 year old kid".(although Gorillaz put a few songs, 'Clint Eastwood', 'Feel Good Inc.', 'Rhinestone Eyes', 'Stylo', etc that were excellent songs)

I actually enjoyed when the Gallagher Brothers turned their barbed comments towards Coldplay, since they are a lame band(Liam saying how can you be a ROCK Band when your main Musician plays a piano?). BLUR has proved overtime to be much better musically than OASIS, as they shifted styles several times over 7 albums(even though 'Modern Life is Rubbish', 'Parklife' & 'The Great Escape' were Kinks influenced, at least they wrote original music, and not like OASIS("someone pass over the Beatles song book"). Actually, Noel's 2 Solo albums with his 'High Flying Birds' band has been more interesting to me.

 

One listen was all it took. Whether it was disco or not, the point is that it didn't have that "black rock" edge like Gratitude did. I knew right then that it wasn't my thing.

 

Appropo of this remark you made:

...as if George Clinton DIDN'T take immense care over the way his band was presented, or DIDN'T have a distinctly rock image? That's why I had to remind you that Clinton was playing gigs with the Stooges and the MC 5 in Detroit before White had any rock-influenced notions of his own.

As for the Isleys' funk-rock transformation, I'd say it gradually started with "It's Your Thing" in 1969, picked up momentum with 1970's Get Into Something album, and really announced itself on 1971's Giving It Back elpee. I couldn't call it "stealing."

 

Wrong thread.

 

You spent too much time dwelling on the wrong topic. Should have cut it off after the first sentence.

 

Fair enough, thats happened to me more than once. Spirit is a lesser affair than TTWOTW or All N All though not by much. The closing track, Burnin Bush is pure soul.

 

Its Your Thing [the single] sounds far more like James Brown than rock but we all hear things differently. Whatever, the Isleys could play it all, in some ways a forerunner to EWF but without the jazz sensibilities. Appealing to a pop, rock and funk audience. You can make an argument that in some ways they were more influential than either EWF or P Funk. Definitely at that musical level.

 

The guitar on "It's Your Thing" is really prominent and slightly distorted. If it didn't have a horn section, it would be a lot closer to rock than it already is. By 1971, horns disappeared from their music altogether.

 

My bad. I just wanted to point out what a real feud is between 2 rival music artists from the same genre.

 

I don't doubt White's integrity or his or anyone else in the band's commitment to an aesthetic they thought was best and was what they wanted to do and I understand White's background and I'm not blaming him for anything, I just don't like his music -- with a small handful of exceptions -- and to me it sounds like what I describe: like proficiency and control and sheen and studio-tan sort of competence have aesthetic primacy, to me it's a kind of middle brow aesthetic of "quality." As Steely Dan was to rock, EWF was to funk, and I never much cared for Steely Dan either. As The Crusaders were to jazz, they were to funk. I'll pass.

 

I got it...no offense, but it could have used some editing

 

No problem. You don't like 'em and you've explained why. Musical differences keep us honest and make life interesting.
Although I wouldn't agree with your assessment there's no doubting EWF became bogged down in a formula that paid diminishing returns, the music went somewhere else like it always does and they lost relevance. Something inside of me died when I saw a Kenny G. credit on one of their very last efforts.
I think the Steely Dan analogy is fitting though not perhaps in the way you mean, as music that somehow seems inauthentic and a betrayal of influences. Like Steely Dan, I think they were looking for a third way where rock or funk could remain as a component of the sound without being it's alpha and omega. Both artists have similar career arcs, starting out paying homage to their influences then finding a more sophisticated, mature middle age with more or less boundless creative flow, then drying up and becoming bored with their materials and way of working whilst failing to find a way out that was likely to keep their accountants happy. A familiar scenario.

 

I've been a P Funk fan forever and think they are untouchable in the funk world from 1970 through to 77. However I also enjoy EW&F in the same era. Gratitude is an amazing live album and all their albums I have from that period (about 4) are top notch. I'm not so familiar with their albums post 77, but I have the Maurice White solo album from 85 which I think is really good.

 

IN addition to PFunk and EWF, from what I remember sales and tour wise at the time, I would say that the
Ohio Players
Isley Brothers
Rufus
With maybe Graham Central Station
Would probably be the others that could hang sales wise up through '77- '79
With Mandrill maybe not as successful commercially, but definitely holding their own artistically

 

So, I was taken to an EWF concert by total surprise last Friday (St Michelle winery Woodinville WA), and OMG! But now I'm stuck - what to buy next?

1) On LP, I have EWF Greatest hits Vol 1 and I just bought (on a whim because it's live; sight unheard) Gratitude. What next?

2) I kept waiting for EWF to play Who's That Lady, until I remembered that the song was the Isley Bros. Which artists next?

3) The only P-Funk I've heard is Tear the Roof off that Sucker and one side of Maggot Brain (in a record store, and I had to ask an employee what it was). Which P-Funk next, if i allowed myself, say, just 3-4 of their albums?

What do I really need to build a small library of the crème de la vinyl from this genre?

 

1. Open Our Eyes, That's the Way of the World, Spirit, I Am, All n All, Faces

2. Not sure what you mean by "Which artists next?" If you mean in this genre...........here are some selections, Ohio Players Fire and Honey, Kool and the Gang -Wild and Peaceful, O'Jays- Ship Ahoy, Back Stabbers, War - All Day Music, The World is a Ghetto, Curtis Mayfield - Curtis, Superfly and Live, Sly and the Family Stone - There's A Riot Goin On, Stand, Issac Hayes - Shaft, Average White Band - Cut the Cake, Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On, Rick James - Come Get It, Brothers Johnson - Right on Time, Graham Central Station, Stevie Wonder, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Talking Book .I hope this gets you started.

3. One Nation Under A Groove, Funkentelechy vs the Placebo Syndrome, P Funk Earth Tour

 

1)I like the earlier stuff from EWF, the debut and Last Days and Time, but if I had to name one record it would be All 'n All.

2)My second favorite Funk artist is Curtis Mayfield, I'd go there before EWF personally, the Curtis album and Superfly. Also There's a Riot Goin' On and Stand by Sly and the Family Stone and Ain't No 'Bout-A-Doubt It by Graham Central Station.

3)For Pfunk start with Mothership Connection by Parliament and then Let's Take it to the Stage by Funkadelic.

The next for Funkadelic depends on whether you prefer Dance music or a harder rock sound. For Rock its Standing on the Verge of Getting it on, for Dance, One Nation Under a Groove (which is still very guitar driven.)

If you liked what you heard of Maggot Brain, that or either of the 2 albums that came before, Funkadelic or Free your Mind... would be good, but the heavy tripped out sound of those is not what most people are envisioning when they hear the word funk, at least not in 2016. (Parliament's Osmium falls here as well.)

For Parliament you can't go wrong with Funkentelechy vs. the Placebo Syndrome, Motor Booty Affair, or Clones of Dr. Funkenstein. Clones is my personal favorite.

You really can't go wrong with any PFunk record from the 1970-81 golden era. Even the 'lowlights' from that period are pretty good records.

 

New poll:

Howitzer vs. Ferris Wheel.

Discuss.

.

 

1) Anything from 1971-75. You're off to a good start with Gratitude. Now get the albums that came before it, like Head To The Sky and That's The Way Of The World.

2) Try the Isleys themselves (1969-75), Mandrill (on the Polydor label - a compilation would be good for starters), War (any greatest hits album), East Bay Grease by Tower of Power, You're So Beautiful by Charles Wright & the Watts 103rd St. Rhythm Band, the Bar-Kays (1971-75), Stevie Wonder (1971-76), Kool & the Gang (1969-75), Sly & the Family Stone (1967-74), Graham Central Station, Meters (great across the board, but their Warner/Reprise albums are closer in spirit to EWF), Skin I'm In by the Chairmen Of The Board, Machine Gun by the Commodores, Look Out For #1 by the Brothers Johnson, plus a few wild-card lesser-knowns like Cymande, Black Merda, Magnum, Yellow Sunshine, Action Speaks Louder Than Words by Chocolate Milk, Maxayn, the Politicians, the Nite-Liters, Rasputin's Stash, What's Up Front That Counts by the Counts, Masterfleet and Black Heat.

3) As was stated previously in post #98, P-Funk had their soul-funk side, and their rock side. Cosmic Slop, to me, does a good job of fusing the two, as does Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On.