Paul AND Ringo drumming on "Dear Prudence"?

I just read an Amazon reviewer stating that Ian McDonald's "Revolution in the Head" is completely suspect because McDonald didn't know that "Dear Prudence" contained drumming by both Paul AND Ringo. Apparently this reviewer maintains that Paul followed/played over a Ringo track up to the final "Let me see you smile" line before the drums freak out at the end. The reviewer says that at this point, one can hear an obvious edit and Ringo's original, complex fills finish out the song.

Is this true? I had never heard this. I had indeed always wondered how Paul could sustain such a dynamic "fill-filled" stretch at the end of this song. Perhaps he could because he was really Ringo? Please help!

 

Pretty sure it's all Paul. Even the "freak out" fills sound like his work. Very similiar to his work on Steve Miller's "My Dark Hour".

Evan

 

Ringo had 'quit' during by that recording...all Paul - and God love'em for it - just great, great drumming. I love that stiff, but oh-so perfect hi-hat work.

 

Absolutely false!!! Ringo is NOT on Dear Prudence, or Back In The USSR. He quit the band on 22 August 1968 just before the session proper for USSR began. Paul, John and George all added drum parts to that song, with Paul playing the basic rhythm. Dear Prudence was recorded several days later (28 August) with Ringo very much away from the studio. The song, and its subsequent overdubs were finalized over the next two days (almost a week before Ringo returned). Ringo rejoined his mates on 4 September, filming the Hey Jude and Revolution promotional films. The following day they re-recorded While My Guitar Gently Weeps at EMI and all was well with the world... for awhile Ron.

Session Details 8-Track recording
28 August 1968
Basic Track
John and George: Guitars
Paul: Drums

Overdubs
29 August
Paul: Bass
John: Manually double-tracked vocals
Paul and George: Backing vocals, percussion, handclaps
Jackie Lomax, Mal Evans, others...: Backing vocals/handclaps, applause (mixed out of record)

Overdubs
30 August
Paul: Flugelhorn and piano

 

You're right, Ron, except you forgot the word "Yoko"!

Evan

 

I think it was George Harrison on drums because everyone thought Paul was dead at the time. Seriously, I love the Beatles but it was Paul McCartney on drums and also plays the fluglehorn on the track. Congrats to Paul McCartney Receives Gershwin Prize For Popular Song.

 

I know its Paul on drums on "Dear Prudence", but is Ringo really not on the track at all?

Do we know for certain that Ringo is not singing along with the "round round round" part? Always thought it sounded like him in there.....

 

I think it was Lewisohn that has the following included in the backing vocals: Jackie Lomax, Mal Evans and John McCartney (Paul's cousin). So no Ringo.

However, it has been noted that the song was not mixed until after Ringo re-joined the group. So it is possible that there is an undocumented Ringo overdub (either drums or vocals).

 

Yes, we know. The song was recorded and finished before he rejoined the group. That's Paul, George, Mal Evans, Jackie Lomax and Paul's cousin, John on backing vocals. No Ringo on drums, vocals or anything. Ron

 

A tape dub DID include a mix of the song that differs from both official mixes. Different bass guitar (mostly during the coda), subtly different guitar work and vocal... however, the drums (part of the basic track) and backing vocals are identical. There were no undocumented session overdubs for the song. The song was mixed into stereo first, then mono during a long session on 13 October 1968. The only song recorded on this date was Julia, a solo John performance. Ringo was not in the studio this day. On 16/17 October John, Paul, George Martin, Ken Scott and John Smith remixed some tracks, crossfaded and edited the final master. George was in the US and missed the session (probably wished he stayed as the others decided to drop Not Guilty at the very last minute, though they remixed It's All Too Much, presumably for the YS film). Ringo was not in the studio. Ron

 

I am surprised Ringo didn't overdub his drums when he re-joined the group ?

 

It's interesting the "White Album" ended up having the two..."Ringo quits the band" songs, start off the album. Was it a dig at Ringo?

 

Probably just that they were the two best songs to start the album.

"Back In The USSR" was on the acetate given to Peter Sellers by Ringo, so I doubt he was offended by the song.

 

So when and how did Paul become such an accomplished drummer? Did he spend his time on Ringo's kit regularly in the studio?
Did he have a kit of his own? Was he an insomniac or something?


I'm not doubting the account, but Ringo was the BEST drummer in Liverpool when he joined the band.

I'm not a drummer (just a Rock Band hack) so I can't comment with any authority on the complexity of playing on either song, but it doesn't seem to me to be a trivial instrument to pick up, let alone master, and neither of these tunes are Yellow Submarine, in terms of difficulty.

It has always been surprising to me that another band member could simply step in so transparently and effortlessly on an instrument at the professional level.

 

Paul McCartney is a better drummer than he gets credit for.

 

He may have sat in when they were drummerless in the early days, or Pete went missing that is maybe where he learnt to play!

Also the drumming on those songs is not that great IMO and they may have contained some studio manipulation because both John and George also contributed, Paul is nowhere near as rock steady as Ringo, the 'Beatles' magic sound seems to be lost on those tunes which IMO just goes to show how important Ringo was, compare the sound of Birthday to USSR!!

 

Paul played drums in the early Beatle days as well. Briefly, (1960), he was their de-facto drummer using his younger brother Mike's kit. The earliest surviving audio is on Anthology 1 where he plays on the demo version of No Reply (subbing in for Ringo when he took ill with tonsilitis). While nothing flashy, it clearly shows Paul, even then, could hold his own on the skins. It's quite likely that Paul could always play drums adequately, then developed his own style (probably after moving out of the Asher's house) as the 60's moved on. Surely he could play quite competently by the time they recorded Dear Prudence, Back In The USSR, Wild Honey Pie, Martha My Dear, Ballad Of John & Yoko and on his solo demo of Come & Get It. Ron

 

I thought we had a major debate about this some time ago and it was undecided whether it was Macca, Jimmy Nichols or an unknown ???

 

Yeah, I guess so. The drum work in Prudence is some of my favorite Beatles drumming, just like the feel of it, especially the cymbal work.

 

Remember it was not just Paul drumming but John and George as well, one of them may have done the cymbals why the other did the snare etc, with three people playing at the same time this could re-create a good drummers work ?

 

A natural musican. George Martin has commented on how Paul went from barely knowing anything about piano to being able to play "Lady Madonna" over the course of the 60's. Also, as others have said, the drumming on those White Album tracks (and the others Paul has recorded) isn't exactly virtuoso stuff.

 

It is all Paul drumming on that song - even the cross-over fills at the end (that's the best part - Ringo would never have done this - it wasn't his style). Paul's drumming could be sloppy and overdubs were often used to make it sound tighter. But he could keep time. A drummer that can't keep time is useless. There's a LOT of supposedly great drums out there who can't keep time

 

Funny enough, George Martin has always slightly knocked Paul's piano playing. Mostly saying he was "ok" or "competent" while praising his guitar, bass (naturally) and drumming abilities. Paul plays lots of nice keyboard far earlier than Lady Madonna too. Thinking of For No One, Lovely Rita, Fool On The Hill and many others from the 1966/1967 era. Lady Madonna is a more traditional 50's-style that Paul probably mastered quite easily and early in his career. For some reason, that song has always stood out for Sir George. Ron

 

Ehem, no it's just Paul on "Dear Prudence", don't think George playing the cymbals and John doing the bass drum with his feet would have bettered the drum part...

 

Tell that Moonie