People, I love ya but there is no such word as VINYLS. It's "VINYL", no 's' at end.

Yous gots a problems withs the ways I talks?

 

This dude probably calls 'em vinyls.

 

Right, this gets to the heart of it. Vinyls is actually okay if you're talking about the material, meaning "varieties of vinyl":

Rigid vinyls are resistant to oxidising acids.

But use it to mean "pieces of vinyl" — specifically, records — and we get the weird-sounding constructions that Steve's complaining about:

I bought too many vinyls.

It works the same way with lots of other normally uncountable nouns. Wine is usually uncountable, but we can use wines to mean "varieties of wine":

German wines are often semi-sweet.

We can't usually use it to mean "portions of wine." This sentence sounds questionable, at best:

I drank too many wines.

Although you probably could get away with this:

I drank too many coffees.

I doubt that vinyls will ever move out from its tiny hipster niche to reach the prominence of coffees or even wines. Maybe if the music press picks it up, but that's not happening yet.

 

Musique concrete, yes!

 

Thank you! The use of "vinyl" with the "s" on the end drives me up the wall! m Someone even posted a picture of a record store with it as part of the name.

 

There shouldn't be, unless it's properties are being discussed.

 

Wrong. I think Tullman had it right: those whose first language isn't English often say "vinyls" because they think it's a word, but it isn't. In fact, after all these years on music message boards, they are the main people I see using it.

 

Wouldn't that depend on the context? For example, saying "an LP's inner sleeve is missing" would need the apostrophe, right?

 

I think the use of a word vinyl alone is a little bit funny when you are talking about a record/LP. Unless, of course, if you are talking about the quality of the vinyl used in a record. Or that record has 200g vinyl in it. It's an audiophile pressing.

 

No. See the link to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage that I posted above.

Huh? What does any of that have to do with what KariK wrote?

 

My father would have asked; "how high 'over'"?

 

Sure. Actually, it's "How much vinyl do you have in your collection?"

Or, "How many slabs of vinyl?"

 

Are you sure?
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5727204&highlight=vinyls
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5725014&highlight=vinyls#post5725014
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5723740&highlight=vinyls#post5723740
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5723372&highlight=vinyls#post5723372
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5723198&highlight=vinyls#post5723198
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5720928&highlight=vinyls#post5720928
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5714007&highlight=vinyls
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5707899&highlight=vinyls#post5707899
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5703603&highlight=vinyls#post5703603
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5702235&highlight=vinyls#post5702235
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5701680&highlight=vinyls#post5701680
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5700900&highlight=vinyls#post5700900
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5698855&highlight=vinyls#post5698855
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5698198&highlight=vinyls#post5698198
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5685301&highlight=vinyls#post5685301
http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5668755&highlight=vinyls#post5668755

 

well, then you should just stop shopping there.

 

That made my day!!

 

the mices ate my vinyls!

 

Except that "hs" would not be read as "aitches," necessitating the otherwise nonsensical apostrophe, whereas "the '60s" has no such problem. I disagree with Safire. Language isn't always logical, but it makes sense to make it as logical as possible when in doubt or given the choice.

This reminds me about the earlier debate we had on the use of plural pronouns for singular referents. The dictionary you cite seems to try to avoid making judgments in terms of correctness/incorrectness, and just describes what is or isn't common usage. The fact that it used the word "dissent" to describe Safire's position implies that there is a rule (or, if you'd like, a commonly-held position) against which he dissents, and the fact that it singles out just one such dissenter (without singling out anyone on the other side) further implies that he is an exception.

Whether or not something like this can be considered a "rule" is perhaps a larger philosophical question, but the fact that you insist that "both are correct" as if that is a fully established rule (when many would disagree) seems at least as pedantic as the position against which you are arguing. "Not everyone agrees that it is incorrect" would seem to fit better with the evidence you actually presented.

 

OK, so then it's settled.
From now on when anyone uses the word vinyl followed by the letter "s", it means a 45 or LP pressed at Specialty.

 

I'm on a list where origins of words are discussed. This is pretty mild compared to some of that stuff.

Much as I hate it, 'vinyls' seems to be common use now, and apparently has been for a few years. Language undoubtedly grown in a vacuum (kids talking to other kids) but now spread, as I showed, even to the Knopfler release announcement.

 

That's awful!
You say dischi in vinile - or, even better, black licorice pizzas.
However, it's noteworthy that the plural form "i vinili" in Italian is not uncommon at all, as well as "un vinile" - the vinile in question being a countable noun, synonymous with record, which is derived by conversion/zero-derivation from vinile, uncountable noun for the plastic material.
What about other languages?

 

Or - I have a theory.


Could that be because of a plural form being allowed in several other languages?

 

I think he was talking about the simple plural noun, and not the possessive. I think you realize he was talking about the simple plural noun, and not the possessive.

 

'60S is hard to read, though, as is CDS or LPS. So the apostrophed plurals are popular in newspapers that capitalise their headlines. (For instance, 1960's, CD's, etc. was New York Times house style up till 2006.)

Not so. Take a look on that article on apostrophes that I'm citing here, for instance. Here's what they say about plurals like he's, buyback's, and weirdo's: "No apostrophe is necessary or wanted in any of the above examples." The editors constantly make judgements on correctness. It's a key point, though, that if something is common usage in edited, published prose, then there's scarcely any basis for calling it an error.

This is in the context of a discussion about current publishing styles. Safire is not dissenting from people who think that 1960s is the one true plural; he's dissenting from people who think that 1960s is preferable. And of course Safire's views are an exception here. 1960s is more popular. No one's disputing that.

Any publisher's house style will obviously opt for one or the other of CDs or CD's, just as it chooses between ax and axe, or omelet and omelette. The fact that it settles on one of them does not mean that the alternate version is wrong.

As the Columbia Journalism Review says:

Again, these apostrophed plurals are constantly used in educated, edited prose. They are therefore correct. I've seen no argument at all as to why they should be considered errors. (Dubious arguments that they're not "logical," yes, but that has nothing to do with usage errors. Irregular verbs aren't "logical" either.)

 

I think he was talking about the simple plural noun and the possessive. Here's what he wrote:

I took "unless it's [sic] properties are being discussed" to be Grant's way of saying "unless you're using its possessive."