Phoenix Engineering Falcon PSU Turntable Speed Controller

They are not addressing the issue at this time. My VPI 300 rpm motor draws 7.5watts power. Too much for the Falcon, it appears. They said I could try it, but it might run the unit too hot. The only other way to use the Falcon and Roadrunner is to switch out the motor for the older 600 rpm design that used less power. I'm not going to do that. I guess a lot of turntable motors don't require the power that the 300 rpm motor on my VPI Scoutmaster requires. Hopefully in the future, they will beef up the Falcon to power my motor.

 

Phoenixengr,

Thanks for your very informative explanations in both of your posts in this thread.

I use a strobe disc to set speed and I do have a Basis power supply which does allow for adjustment of speed for both 33 1/3 and 45 rpm. I have helped with setting up many tables that don't offer controls, and fortunately most tend to be a bit slow, but usually within 1% of correct speed. I have not done any serious listening to determine at what point a stable error becomes audible. As a user of an outboard power supply I recognize that they do improve the performance of my turntable--the sound seems more "solid" and realistic in attack and decay (particularly piano). I sort of assumed this was more an issue of a reduction in rapid variations is speed and not long-term speed accuracy, but, that was more an assumption than anything else. Are you saying that 1% long-term speed variation is audible as a pitch variation or something else (like hardness or a brittle sound quality) and is this something most people can hear or primarily those with really good ears for pitch accuracy (which is not me)?

 

Interesting. I do find that the Falcon does run a bit hot. I wonder if it's struggling a bit with my motor/set-up? No problems so far. I wonder why this is an issue for the designer. In most cases the VPI motors are 300 rpm now and he is competing with the SDS. Very odd.

 

Hi Phoenixengr,

Is there an issue with the 300 rpm VPI motors? I have an older Aries 2 that has the 600 rpm (which I believe it is) and the Falcon does run a bit hot. I have a slight concern if one day I go with an upgraded motor I may have an issue. Is this being addressed?

Thanks!!

 

I got mine in the mail finally. I ordered it the day before the OP posted his vid actually. My experience today was very similar to his. It was easy to set up and seems to work well. My table is an HW19 MKIII upgraded to IV with a SAMA motor. The arm is a modest Acos Lustre GST with a DV20XL. I've got just over $1k in the arm/table combined, not bad for the level of performace it provides IMO.

Upon setting it up today I discovered the table (with just the tach connected) was quite a bit slow, 33.15 give or take and I was having little luck getting it up any higher playing with belt tension. The good news is that the speed was pretty stable without the tachometer connected to the PSU, moreso than I expected frankly. I'd put it varying somewhere in the +/- .01 range. Upon plugging both in the table slowly ramped up to 33.33x and stayed within that range. Now it varies more in the +/- .005 range I'd say. And it seems to need to correct a bit every 2-4 rotations. Those are all just rough guesses from watching the output FWIW.

As for sound, there was no big wow moment but to my ears, I felt a slight improvement in bass tautness and there did seem to be a more focused soundstage. I listened to a couple recordings with some nice ambience and they felt as life like as ever. And I'll no longer have to pull the motor cover off to move the belt and change speeds. I don't do 45s much but I do have a few double disc 45 rpm pressings that I really love but that don't get listened to often due to the hassle.

 

Speed related parameters are measured with standard DIN/IEC high quality test records. These are using a 3150Hz tone upon which the accuracy is based. The standard is 'Pitch accuracy', 'Pitch drift', 'wow' and 'flutter'. Pitch accuracy is the average stable pitch deviation from 3150Hz. Drift is how the pitch is variating over a longer time. Wow is frequency modulation with a frequency from 0-10Hz and flutter is frequency modulation between 10-100Hz. Standard measurements that will tell us most about how a TT performs, no guessing is needed.

The problem is, what has been shown by Bruel&Kjaer in their paper 'Audible Effects of Mechanical Resonances in TTs', there are more factors that are effecting frequency modulations, like real world records and tonearm resonancies, which in most cases are the elephants in the room. Luckydog has shown with his polar plots that in fact the by far dominating factor is low frequency stability by the arm/needle. No guessing is needed.

 

Hi Missan,

Of course there is no "guessing' involved in the measurement of wow and flutter and drift, but, there is considerable disagreement on the levels that are audible and the way such deviations are manifested audibly. "Expert," like Michael Fremer of Stereophile, attribute certain sound quality to even small differences in wow and flutter and speed drift and attribute much to the superior qualities of such tables as the Caliburn and Tech DAS to superior performance in these areas. I have no idea myself, but I was hoping some here would comment on this who have looked into these issues. I suspect you are right about record and tonearm resonance being major contributors to sound quality. That is certainly the position taken by some manufacturers, such as Basis, which is why they employ vacuum clamping of the record to a platter that is intended to drain vibrational energy away from the record. I own a Basis table with the vacuum clamp, which I like very much, but I know of many others who don't like the "dark" sound of such tables and go for "lively" sounding tables. This is a matter of taste and system matching. While I suspect that "lively" is primarily a matter of resonance, I have no actual knowledge of whether this is true. I suppose this is just "guessing" but then, much of audio falls in the realm of guessing because I have not seen too many measurements that clearly, and unequivocably, correlate with preference across all listeners.

 

Hi
Personally I trust very much the weighing curve of the wow&flutter measurements regarding audibility. Behind these are proven work as to how frequency modulations are heard. It has been shown that a modulating frequency of 3-4Hz is easiest to detect and that as low treshold as 0,05% have been confirmed in some cases to be audible, depending on what frequency it´s modulating.
If people can prove what they hear in these matters then this has to be seriously taken into account, otherwise it doesn´t mean that much to me.

I see no possible way to have any consensus in these matters, be it measurement´s figures effect or just subjective effects. The way we listen, the sound we are accustomed to, the likings of different sound and different music, will always effect far too much IMO and IME.

I agree about 'lively' sound, it´s very clear to me that this is very much about vibrations and resonances. It´s very obvious when damping resonances, nearly anywhere in relation to vinyl playback, we will get a different sound. Most are not used to this cleaner sound and will put certain attributes on this sound that is farther from lively, like 'dark', 'uninvolving' what have you. But there is no going back to a 'lively' sound IME. Listen e.g. to the VPI metal arm and compare it with the 3D arm.

 

My area of expertise is electronics not psychoacoustics, but I've read research that indicates average humans can hear ~1% pitch changes. This is probably harder to quantify than a simple number suggest, as Missan and others have posted, it can be subjective and can depend upon your system components as well as the type of music you listen to. Long term pitch stability and instantaneous W&F are two separate issues; the tach feedback will have little to no effect on W&F, but a stable AC source can make some improvements in this area.

This is probably one of the more civil discussions I've seen on blogs about this subject and I'm sure the debate will continue. It seems to be the consensus that pitch accuracy is important (at least to some degree) and W&F is probably more of a issue. Our products are designed to provide as much stability and accuracy as possible that hopefully will be heard to have sonic benefits.

 

All of the 300RPM VPI (Hurst) motors we've seen are 7.5W which is higer than our output rating. The Falcon will run these motors, but will get uncomfortably warm and we don't recommend doing so for long term reliability. A higher power version is certainly possible, but it has to make commercial sense to do so.

 

Does this mean it will not run a classic 3?

 

Depends on which motor it has. Some of the new Classics are shipping with a 24VAC motor and internal regenerative PSU run by an external 48VDC power supply. We would not work with that arrangement without a lot of rewiring/modification.

Our PSU requirements are: 5W or less AC synch motor. The PSU puts out 115VAC nominal, but can run lower voltage motors by plugging the wall adapter into the Falcon output.

 

I have been using my Falcon/Roadrunner combo for the last 5 months (VPI Scoutmaster 2 TT) and I have been extremely pleased with them. Before I hooked up the Falcon I measured my Scoutmaster 2 using the Ultimate Analogue Test LP and Dr. Feickert's PlatterSpeed iPhone app. The results showed my table ran consistently fast. I do not have the chart handy that shows the exact figure, but it was out of tolerance shown by PlatterSpeed. I ran the same test again with the Falcon/Roadrunner combo in place and my speed was spot-on. Add to that the convenience of not having to move the belt when playing 45s and it is well worth the price of admission (in my opinion).

I had an early production model that had a few glitches and Bill (phoenixengr) was extremely responsive in fixing the issue. It has been smooth sailing ever since. My Falcon does run a bit hot as I suspect my Scoutmaster 2 motor might be at the edge of compatibility, but I am working on an external heat sink solution that may resolve that. I will post my idea once I test it tonight.

 

I've noticed that the unit runs quite hot on my 600 rpm motor as well. I guess for a power supply, that's to be expected.

Isn't the output of the 600 rpm Hurst 7W?

 

I love the Falcon however I'm a bit disappointed about there being a compatibility issue if down the road I choose (or need) to replace my VPI motor. Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seems that I've read on a few audio sites that this great product (definitely great) is competing against the VPI SDS as a reasonably priced alternative (with the option off the added Roadrunner). My thoughts are why would it not make commercial sense? VPI is a top selling turntable and the 300 rpm motor is more/or less the norm (if my understanding is correct).

So for my selfish reasons, I'm just concerned that if one day I need to replace the motor (which happens) I may be without a controller. Also, when researching this product I was not aware this would be a possible issue. This is the first I am reading about this.

 

The 600-rpm motor is the norm (stock) for most of VPI's turntables.

 

My thoughts exactly. If you really want to compete with the VPI SDS, and it appears that that is precisely what they want to do, then it is a real head scratcher as to why they did not make the PSU fully compatible with the 300 rpm motor. There are literally thousands of 7.5 watt 300 rpm motors out there powering VPI tables. And it's a good thing I asked or I fear I may have found out the hard way through excessive heat and possible early break down that the Falcon is not recommended with that very popular motor. They don't state that anywhere in the manual, other than it has a 5 watt maximum output. Really, most people are not going to know that the 300 rpm motor draws 7 W. There should be a list of motors that it works with and those it does not. But ultimately, this great product should be redesigned to power these higher wattage motors if they want to be successful.

 

Nice of you to attempt to design your own heat sinks, but I believe that if I buy a product that will cost me over $600, the darn thing better be designed to run correctly without my external DIY modifications.

 

I`m sure You don`t need my opinion about this matter one more time. But if so I´m here.

 

Yes, I fully understand that you do not believe in or support these type of products. Point made. You are entitled to your opinion. In response, I do believe that there are various reasons why a turntable can run off speed, especially inexpensive ones. As to whether or not one can hear an improvement using a device that delivers spot-on speed, that is the debate. As I have never tried one, I honestly don't know. I do know that many designs today do include ways to ensure speed is accurate. Do I wish that VPI would have included that with all tables to begin with? Absolutely. What it have added to the cost? Absolutely. Can I hear the difference? I don't know. I can only rely on the experience of others and the opinions of those who design turntables, and so far, most have stated that it is audible. Are they just saying that to line their pockets??? That, I guess, is what you are saying. To me, designers like Harry W and Walker have demonstrated a passion for pulling the utmost out of analog playback. Would they just create something like precise speed control if it didn't make a darn bit of audible difference? I find that hard to swallow, based on their past track record. But hey, to each his own. I assume that you A/Bed such speed control devices and have made your conclusions based on what you hear. If so, I respect that you did not hear any difference. How do you account for the many that have, including the designers? Surely, as I stated, they all can't be out to pick your pocket.

 

I didn't really design anything. I re-purposed a heat sink that comes attached to a Western Digital Velociraptor hard drive. This one to be precise: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008L5TQIS...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_8r7bl9br0a_b

I gave it a try last night and it works perfectly. I doubt it is necessary but if it keeps it running cooler, why not?

 

No, no, I say go for it.

 

uh huh

 

Sounds great. Now can you please contact the makers of the Falcon and update them so that they can incorporate that into future designs so that I can use it with my 300 rpm motor.

 

The new me, I will only say what people want to hear.