Phono Preamp... tube or SS?

Which is better and why? I would like to hear your personal experience with any external phono preamp. Right now I got the Rega Phoni Mini and am wondering how much better it might be with tube or the more expensive phono preamp.

In addition to your personal experience... if you had to get the best performance to price ratio... which would you get?

All helps and replies are greatly appreciated.

 

I have an EAR 834 and a Jolida JD9....both are tube units. The EAR is somewhat expensive ($1K, over or under) and the Jolida can be had used for around $300-350.

Either of these are excellent units and, in my estimation, best most SS units....of course, this is to my ears, maybe not to yours.

 

Bryston BP 1.5

http://bryston.com/bp15_m.html

http://bryston.com/BrystonSite05/pdfs/manuals/BP1pt5_MANUAL.pdf

Accuphase C-27

http://www.accuphase.com/model/c-27.html

FM Acoustics 122 or 222

http://fmacoustics.com/c_dom_fm_122.html

 

I am a fan of ARC phono preamps, which are tubed units. I've owned a SP11 Mark II (preamp, with phono preamp) and PH3SE, and I currently own a PH7. The PH7 is extremely dynamic and quite neutral. Some pros and cons of tube phono preamps:

Pros: provides the benefits of tubes (warmth, bloom, imaging, air), without many of the common disadvantages of a tube power amp (heat, bias adjustment, relatively short tube life, poor bass control, low power)(yes, I know that some tube power amps do some or all of these well, but they are generally quite expensive). I use my phono preamp in conjunction with an SS preamp and SS monoblocks.

Cons: not ideal for use with very low output MC cartridges because somewhat noisier than most good SS preamps (yes, I know that you can workaround this to a large extent by using a preamp with a lot of gain).

I hope this is helpful.

 

Good summary Hal.

 

This is what I am looking for. Thanks Hal! This gives me something to think about as there are pro and cons. Is the bass poorly controlled as in lack of bass or more of something like wows?

 

Solid state for accuracy, low noise, cost. Pick any price point and it'll be the case. The Jolida preamp is actually a solid state unit with a tube buffer. It sounds nice and is very flexible but it has some colorations associated with the tubes, you'll either like it or not. The Rega units actually have a nice, warm sound which many people asume most be obtained with tubes, yet they are also free from noise and are very affordable.
-Bill

 

There are many good solid state phono preamps out there, for a price. I personally prefer a tubed phono, and that is what I use.

 

Einstein - The Turntable's Choice http://www.einstein-audio.de/produkte/Turntable.html
or - http://www.stereophile.com/phonopreamps/908nag/
(if money ain't a thing)

If you are on a budget these two solid states will do as well :
The specifics are about the same anyway http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vseries/vlps.html
If you want to spend a few bucks more and get a little better performance go for the Cube - http://cms.lehmannaudio.de/index.php?id=31&L=0

 

None of that is as good as the Accuphase or FM Acoustics.
Even the Bryston.

 

Preamp snob...

 

What's your budget? For lower priced units I'd go solid state. Sim Audio has a great unit for $600. If you're willing to spend $1k or more you can start to look at tubes.

 

that's a bit like saying what's better Apples or Oranges ?

 

I highly recommend this route too.

 

Is a Rolex top model better than a Breitling. ?....

Alll of these will sound spectacular ( and the Einstein got the SH stamp of approval- afaik that is what he uses in his Top of The Line chain ?) coupled with a cart like the Koetsu Black Signature Platinum on a chain for millionaires... and for the maxed out NAGRA , This comes with the James Bond soa and massive 24 Karat Gold innards - german vs swiss precision engineering with a no cost limit - now beat this....

The tricky part is to deliver the best bang for the buck

 

Quote from the web-site
"The FM 122 and FM 222 are the only preamplifier able to provide truly accurate reproduction of vinyl LP's"


What a ridiculous statement

 

I am using a Bellari VP129 tube preamp. I removed the cover to see if there was an internal gain pot, which there wasn't, but there sure are lot of IC's in there for something that's considered a vacuum tube component.

Makes me wonder if the tube is there just for the looks.

 

It's exposed for the looks. It's there for the noise. Sorry, but it's twoo. The one saving grace is that it is still as nice as a lot of old phono inputs in budget receivers and amps so it isn't a downgrade for the average Joe. Plus it has some odd feayures that are actually useful, such as a subsonic filter and a headphone amp. I have used one in an installation for a store demo set-up for a local record store. It serves as the amplifier for a listening station via headphones and since it has its own volume control, the users can adjust it if they figure it out. The line outs go to the stores main audio system so that they can listen to CDs or whatever as well as Lps. The source is a Rega P1. They like it.
-Bill

 

Has anyone here used the Grado pre in the wooden box?

 

Of course. It is a wonderful sounding preamp. It loads right at 47k, so it's not a super flexible unit but it does sound awesome with a good MM cartridge. of course with the Grados it is a great match. It has very low noise and an organic sort of sound that is clear but not sterile. They also have a higher gain version for use with lower output cartridges. That can even be used for MC cartridges, when in conjunction with a step-up transformer.
-Bill

 

Tubes and Solid State

I have both a tube and solid state phono pre-amp. Some of the typical tube vs. SS stereotypes don't apply with phono pre-amps the way they do with amplifiers.

Once you get beyond the budget price category with tube phono pre-amps the noise levels that people associate with tubes is simply not there. I challenge anyone to listen to my Cary Audio phono pre-amp and find tube hiss. I used to own a EAR 834P and that was also very quiet with more than adequate gain. Also neither of those tube units had a bloated, bloomy midrange at the expense of the high frequencies and low frequencies. Both of those units were very balanced with admirable lows, mids and highs.

With the newer tube units it's inaccurate to drag in the old fashioned tube stereotypes of tube amps from 40 years ago. My Cary equipment (see my profile) is a detailed and quiet as most any SS equipment out there.

I also own a Benz Micro SS phono pre-amp (MC only, no MM) which also shatters the negative SS stereotypes. It is a very pleasant sounding, detailed unit. It isn't hard or sterile without a trace of warmth like the usual SS stereotypes. The Benz phono unit feeding my Cary 300B SET tube integrated is a match made in heaven.

Scott

 

No stereotypes from old, just facts that have held true through this day. I do this all the time for folks with a wide variety of systems and I have heard those components and others. While I'll agree that they are all nice sounding, I cannot agree that tubed based phono is somehow any different from tube based amplification in any other form in terms of its noise. In fact, it becomes even more of a problem at those gain levels and with such a small signal. Almost every equipment designer agrees with that fact, even those that choose to work with tubes in order to achieve a particular sonic signature or just to satisfy their traditional customers. There are a series of compromises that must be made to use either technology at various price points. There is certainly debate about which particular unit might be held as being the pinnacle of the art form but there is little debate that Ss is more quiet that tube amplification. Most of the better tube designs incorporate transformers as their first stage of gain specifically to allow a reduction in tube noise. Hiss can be dealt with to a degree but it isn't the only form of noise or irregularity associated with tube amplifiers. I'm not trying to steer anyone in one direction over the other from a preference standpoint, but as far as noise goes, it's not really a matter of opinion.
-Bill

 

Just to be clear, when I referred to poor bass control I was talking about an issue with some tubed power amps. This is not typically an issue with tubed phono preamps. And, of course, some excellent tubed power amps (ARC, VTL, VAC, Tenor, et al) have superb bass control -- but they are expensive.

When I refer to poor bass control, I am referring to a "flabby" bass -- not necessarily a lack of bass, but rather bass that is poorly defined, bloated and/or muddy. For example, the pluck of a bass string would not have a clear attack and the note may not decay naturally.