Phono RCA cable recommendations (tried Transparent Musiclink, Oyaide PH-01, Jellco)

Does anyone have experience with the Transparent Musiclink phono cable specifically? I've been using the regular RCA version in my phono stage, but have come across some distortion. After reaching out to the Transparent support team, they said the issue is because I'm not using a phono cable.

I ended up trying some other dedicated phono cables and I still think the musiclink still is better in other aspects. The tight bass is what I like about it the best, but wish it had a bit more treble clarity.

My second favourite I tried was the Jellco RCA phono. I liked the treble sound, but it just sounded a bit weak overall compared to the musiclink. Especially in the bass.

Wasn't a fan of the Oyaide PH01. Some might say it could've needed more break in, but the bass just seemed a little inconsistent and the treble a little shrill, especially for metal.

Is a dedicated phono music link the way to go or is there a cable with something in between the musiclink and Jellco EQ wise?

My setup is Project RPM 5.1, Ortofon 2M Black, Marantz PM 5005, Castle Knight 1 speakers.

 

Capacitance is going to be the primary factor with a phono cable and a MM cart, especially one that has higher inductance as your Ortofon. I use the blue jeans lc1 because it has one of the lowest capacitance specs I’ve seen and I’ve been very happy with the sound.

Stereo Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

 

What phono preamp are you using? The one built into the Marantz? Or something else? What is the preamp input capacitance? Look at what capacitance load Ortofon recommends for your cart, add the phono preamp capacitance + ~100 pf for the internal tonearm cabling, and then whatever phono cable you are looking at.

A phono cable needs to have low capacitance usually and should be well shielded. The capacitance should be clearly stated by the manufacturer. If not, it's a garbage cable no matter what it costs.

I doubt whatever distortion problem you are experiencing is the result of the cable unless the cables you are trying are very poorly shielded. I have seen some garbage snake oil cables that have no real shielding at all...don't use those.

Figure out the capacitance you need and act accordingly. Swapping cables on a trial and error basis is not the way to fix your problem or properly load a cartridge.

Once you have the cart properly loaded address the distortion. Distortion can be caused by a variety of things. Is the distortion across the entire record or only at the inner grooves? How many hours are on the stylus? Is the cartridge aligned properly? Is VTF and AS set properly?

 

I'm using the phono preamp built into the Marantz. The RCA inputs were recently changed because they got damaged from fitting too tight on the musiclink.

I don't know where to start to look for capacitence aside from the needle specifications, but I definitely noticed less distortion with the Jellco of the three but that could be a lot to do with:
- The Oyaide wasn't fully broken in
- The Musiclink is meant for line level supposedly

As far as precise setup of the cartridge, I just trusted the people who set it up. I don't have the time or money to get all the proper tools right now.

 

The issue of cable capacitance is relevant to the frequency response of the phono cart, it's not going to cause or eliminate distortion. A well shielded cable will help with induced noise, but there's nothing that's particularly different between a well shielded, RCA terminated, coax marketed as "line level" and one marketed for phono use. What is the nature of the distortion you're hearing?

 

It's when it's louder (above 25%) the vocals or bass sometimes seem muffled or increased sibilance, whereas that's not the case with the other ones I mentioned.

 

Transparent has a trade-in program perhaps you could ask your dealer if you could swap and add some cash for your existing Music Link RCA cable for the Music Link Phono cable.

 

Hi!

If you use your Marantz PM5005 phono input, it is no suprise to me that you get a lot of distortion.

Newer Marantz Stereo amps/receivers have about 440pf capacity for the phono stage - which is far too much.

My advice would be to buy a good and cheap phono preamp - an Art Dj Pre II for about 50€ is quite good. There you can set the capacity to 100pf and with your tonearm wires you not by much exceed the recommended 150-200pf for your Ortofon cart.

I would not spend my money on "fancy" cables.

Bye Andrea

 

Not that I know much about your request but I've heard through the Grapevine these are very good.

 

That is my default suggestion for a budget phono stage that works well and had decently low capacitance. If that figure for the built in phono is correct, agreed that it's WAY too high.

Re: setting up a cart it doesn't have to be an expensive process. You need basic tools, which are cheap or free.

-digital scale costs 10-15 dollars.

-Conrad Hoffman custom Stevenson arc protractor is free.

-Acrylic VTA block is 10-15 dollars

-Mirror - you probably have one already

-Reading glasses or a loupe should be less than 10 dollars.

Again I would ask how many hours are on the stylus. Note also that the 2M Black is a cart people often have trouble with dialing in. Some claim it is the Shibata stylus but I don't find Shibata styli that hard to set up,nor most advanced shapes. The unusually high output of this cart, up to 8.6 mV, depending on your example, is going to cause problems with some phono stages.

 

I agree with what others have said: Try a different phono preamplifier.
I think that turntable and cartridge would definitely benefit from a nice phono stage.

 

If this number is correct, it certainly could be a problem -- the OP's cart has 630 mH inductance, with 440 pF capacitance plus let's say another 150 pF of capacitance from the tonearm and phono cable, the cart/cable/phono stage resistance circuit is going to have a resonant peak at around 7.8kHz and a roll off of frequencies above 8 kHz. That could make the music sound a little closed in, because the top octave and a half is rolling off (it won't effect bass performance though). It also could impact how sibilants sound because a peak at 7.8kHz, is at the top of the common range for human vocal sibilance.

Given that number, an outboard phono preamp would be a better solution than different phono cables. Even low cap phono cables are only going to reduce that total capacitance figure by like 60 or 100 pF, which will push the resonant frequency up to 8.5 kHz, basically be rolling off all of the top octave. One would ideally have very low cap cable (like the 12.2 pF/ft Blue Jeans LC-1) and a phono stage with an input capacitance of 0-75 pF for use with that cart.

That said, if the effects the OP is hearing are happening only when the volume is turned up, or happening more as the volume is turned up, I doubt the phono cable is the cause of those. The phono cable effects should be equally present at all volumes. I'd suspect other issues -- maybe mistracking from a dirty or imperfectly aligned stylus. Stylus could be worn. If "muffled" is one of the problems -- too high of a tracking weigh maybe or too low VTA. If by bass getting muffled at higher volumes the OP is describing a kind of congested sound, maybe acoustic breakthrough and/or motor vibration breakthrough. A lot of potential suspects based on the description from the OP, none likely related to capacitance load on the cart.

Either way, I wouldn't expect too much out of a change of phono cables.

 

I mean, I didn't have the sibilance/distortion issue with the Jellco RCAs at volumes past 25%, so in that case the phono cables definitely made a difference, still using the marantz phono input. I still liked the bass on the musiclink better.

I would still need cables if I bought an outboard preamp, but it's sounding like you're all recommending blue jeans?

I had already broken in the cart before doing this cable shopping. I can't give a solid estimate on hours, but I got the cartridge mid-late October.

 

Some people like the Blue Jeans, some people really dislike them. I'm not recommending one cable or another, just short, well-shielded, low capacitance cables of whatever brand or make you prefer, but mostly, if that stat on the Marantz input capacitance is correct, some phono pre with a much, much lower input capacitance.

 

I'm not sure which if any of these are capacitence, but these are the phono specs from the PM5005 manual.

Input sensitivity/Impedance: 2.2 mV/47 kΩ/kohms

S/N (IHF-A, 8 Ω/ohms load): 83 dB (5 mV input, 1 W output)

Also it says

"This unit is compatible with turntables equipped with a moving magnet (MM) phono cartridge. When you connect to a turntable with a low output moving
coil (MC) cartridge, use a commercially available MC head amp or a step-up transformer."

Would I plug something like the ART Pro Audio into the Marantz' phono input or line level one?

 

I am using a Transparent Audio Ultra cable (not Phono) between my phono stage and the preamp. The phono cables are for the connection between the tonearm and the phonostage, and the normal RCA interconnects are for the connection between phonostage and line stage (preamp). My arm is direct wired from cartridge lead to RCA connectors so I don't have a choice for phono cable.

 

The capacitance spec isn't listed. You would need to email Marantz or perhaps look at a schematic from the service manual. A lot of these built-in phono preamps are what I call "$10 throw-ins". The manufacturer heard vinyl was trendy again so they included a phono stage, but just didn't put much effort into it. If you can't get the full specs it's not something I would personally trust to load the cartridge correctly.

You would use the line level input (e.g. tape, CD, Aux) for a separate outboard phono.

 

Would the jacks I had changed make the capacitence different?

 

It's highly unlikely cables are causing distortion. Even a capacitance issue would not result in distortion. I have Music Link RCA's and the connections are indeed tight. Maybe the connections on the Marantz are faulty still??

 

Just wondering where you got the 8.6 figure from and what the numbers should be vis-a-vis the receiver (i.e. should the mV number be lower on the cartridge?)

The figure on the site is:
Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec. - 5 mV

Again, I have no idea what these numbers mean, but any help is appreciated.

 

As @patient_ot has already mentioned the capacity of the phono stage on your Marantz PM5005 is normally not mentioned in the specs, because the manufactor do not care.

If you really want to make sure the exact capacity on your Marantz you have to email them. Or you believe me. In a big german forum they just did it for - the more expensive PM 6006 and PM 8006, and there are both 440pf. So it is very unlikely the PM 5005 has any different capacity.

I can only repeat myself: buy an Art Dj Pre II. If it is not gonna solve your problem, send it back and report here also.

Then we can go further into it.

Bye Andrea

 

The 2M Black specs at 5mv output. That is probably not the issue>
Ortofon 2M Black Phono Cartridge Specifications
- Output voltage @ 1kHz: 5mV
- Channel balance @ 1kHz: 1dB
- Channel separation: 26dB @ 1kHz; 15dB @ 15kHz
- Frequency range: 20Hz-31kHz -3dB
- Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz +2/-0dB
- Tracking ability @ 315Hz @ recommended tracking force: 80 µm
- Compliance dynamic lateral: 22 µm/mN
- Stylus type: Nude shibata
- Stylus tip radius: .0002 x .002 inch
- Tracking force: 1.4 - 1.7 g
- Recommended tracking force: 1.5 g

 

Hifi World tested the cart. These 2Ms often deviate from spec.

 

No. The capacitors are likely surface mount components in line with the phono circuit. Changing them yourself is probably not a good idea, even if you have the tools. They might have put them there to as a shortcut to reduce interference noise from other things inside the integrated. I would just switch to an outboard phono stage with the proper specs for your cartridge.

 

Right! I just saw the link/test results> Ortofon 2M Bronze 2M Black

That could indeed over load a phono section.