SH Spotlight Play the Kinks "Waterloo Sunset" in stereo, check and fix or improve your stereo playback with it!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    We've talked about this before but try it. Play the stereo WATERLOO SUNSET and see how far you can get the background singing to go. The recording was done in a dub down process, bouncing from one machine to another to add the backgrounds. Somehow they goofed and they ended up out of phase (or it was an effect they intentionally were going for).

    The background voices are floating and should seem to be way the hell to the sides, around you, almost surrounding you. Can't hear it? Reposition your speakers until you do. Then, enjoy!

    Later: Folks, you will enhance this effect by towing out, of course. In fact, no toe-in at all will make it just right, HOWEVER, check your center vocals on something in a good stereo mix. Sometimes NO toe-in (having your speakers straight, facing the room, no angle at all) can make your center stuff more muted sounding. Check and see, compromise is sometimes the best. Look at your speakers from your sweet spot. You should just be able to just see the inside walls of your speakers from your X. That is how I have mine, just a bit of toe-in to make sure the center volume is perfect. Capiche?

    To recap:
    Move your speakers away from a back wall, make sure you have room on both sides, make a triangle with your speakers and your widdle head. Play the thing and listen. Move your head closer or further back while BG singing is on to figure out exact sweet spot. When the singing sounds way out there, beyond your speakers, that is it.

    Then, get it right and leave it. Everything will sound better

    Now that you have it just right, grab your DEEP FOREST "Sweet Lullaby" CD and live it up!
     
  2. Adam9

    Adam9 Formerly jbohdan

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Thanks, Steve - as if I needed an excuse to listen to "Waterloo Sunset" :D . Tried it on my downstairs system - perfect. On my upstairs system I had to move the speakers apart a touch.
     
  3. dirtymac

    dirtymac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Exile, MN
    Good reason to pull out my favorite Kinks record to listen to that sublime songs a few times. Thanks for the tip.
     
  4. william r small

    william r small Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Yes, and what is it that creates that effect? Is that vocal harmony track on both channels and then they are thrown out of phase? If you switch to mono they seem to cancel each other out.
    BTW A stereo mix of "Waterloo Sunset" appears on a UK Marble Arch LP titled "Stars of '68." (MALS 762) Seems to be a nearly identical mix except those background harmonies do not have that effect.
     
  5. eelkiller

    eelkiller Untrained ears

    Always a pleasure to play the Kinks, what a fantastic tune. I will try this out.
     
  6. Adam9

    Adam9 Formerly jbohdan

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    There is at least one other phasing "problem" on the original mix of Something Else . On "Tin Soldier Man" the vocal almost disappears when summed to mono. (I said original as a couple of songs were remixed for a much later release).
    Interesting about that Marble Arch stereo mix!
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Good, now everything in your upstairs system should have a more holographic sound, especially on classical, etc.
     
    RickH likes this.
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    What creates it? unintentional out of phase errors. Same way they make that fake surround on TV shows, etc. but they do it on purpose.. Q-Sound and all that..
     
    theMess likes this.
  9. Captain Groovy

    Captain Groovy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Freedonia, USA
    Can someone sketch a little diagram of proper speaker placement for this? I love immursion. Emmursion. Imurtion. I love to be surrounded by music like this.

    I've got the track ready to play. Want to make sure this isn't the emperor's clothes. I want to make sure I'm getting it...

    Jeff
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Move your speakers away from a back wall, make sure you have room on both sides, make a triangle with your speakers and your widdle head. Play the thing and listen. Move your head closer or further back while BG singing is on to figure out exact sweet spot. When the singing sounds way out there, beyond your speakers, that is it.

    Then, get it right and leave it. Everything will sound better!
     
    Dave, Captain Groovy, theMess and 4 others like this.
  11. Captain Groovy

    Captain Groovy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Freedonia, USA

    PERFECT. Thanks. Any proper speaker placement that will cancel out the incessant noise of my wife telling me to lower it?

    Jeff
     
  12. Emberglow

    Emberglow Forum Resident

    Location:
    Waterford, Ireland
    On my stereo system, I've noticed this "surround sound" effect on a few other titles, too. I usually play the Jimi Hendrix track 'Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)' to check that my speakers are perfectly aligned. Another track is the single version of the Monkees track 'Listen To The Band'. There's a neat brief section towards the end when the sound seems to go from mono to a 360° surround sound but only if the speakers are perfect.
     
    bonzo59 and fredblue like this.
  13. pdenny

    pdenny Blow up your TV

    I assume the version one uses is not important? I have the 2-CD special edition from a few years back.
     
    boboquisp likes this.
  14. Sure! On stands, in the proper "triangle" formation, and at least two feet away from the side and back walls of the motel room you'll be living in after she throws you out. ;)
     
    vonwegen, coffeecupman and George P like this.
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Try it, you'll know soon enough. There is only one stereo mix.
     
  16. fortherecord

    fortherecord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    I only have the song in mono :(
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    That won't work.....Unless you wire your speakers out of phase.. :^)
     
    BuddhaBob and fortherecord like this.
  18. fortherecord

    fortherecord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    I'm in luck, I forgot I had the old Reprise CD still. :)
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    People keep asking what I'm using. Well, here ya go. My "best" source for the stereo WATERLOO SUNSET:

    CD "Something Else" The Kinks "Made In West Germany PRT 8.26674 ZR, silver label with blue ink and a dark blue/light blue stripe on top under the PRT logo.

    My best mono is "Ugly Pink".
     
  20. BIG ED

    BIG ED Forum Resident

    BIG thanks for clarifying Steve; that's were i was going too go when i saw the thread title [thanks as well too Capt Groovy for asking].
    Know bout the "Golden Triangle" & the "Sweet Spot" (too the point of the "Head-in-a-Vice" situation that comes from electrostatics specifically & dipoles in general)

    No reply requirED nor requestED.

    -------------

    General:
    any one what too address "Toe-In"?

    ------------

    Personal:
    really believe having a video display between the spks is a GREAT hindrance it getting the sensation of 'depth' from a sound system.

    -----------

    Real Personal:
    just can't seem too get passed the flat screen which is a ft from the back wall & of course having a display 'flat' against the wall w/the sense of 'depth' from the display.

    Now Playing [via 3WK]:
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    Toe-in? Just use Waterloo Sunset and toe in and out your speakers (an inch at a time) until the background singing wraps around you the MOST then, you' have it. Good for all music after that.
     
  22. pdenny

    pdenny Blow up your TV

    If only all life's problems had such simple solutions--I'm on this tonight!
     
  23. Adam9

    Adam9 Formerly jbohdan

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Don't worry, I think the mono mix is super!
     
    Dave and Millington like this.
  24. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    I figured I had my speakers set up pretty good, and I wasn't wrong! Just put on the CD as I don't have a stereo copy of the track on vinyl - scared the **** out of me - in a good way of course, it was like someone just sang over my shoulder! Never noticed that before, thanks!
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Music Mastering Your Host Thread Starter

    You are welcome. It's like they are floating in space around you. A neat (accidental) effect that happens to be on one of the best rock songs ever recorded.
     
    nikh33, bhazen, Brian Cruz and 5 others like this.

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