Poll: Can You Hear Differences in Cables & Interconnects?

What gets me about this cable business is this:

A signal is recorded through a cable attached to an instrument or microphone into a recorder with scores of wires and circuit boards, through a cable over into a mixing console, through more cables into more recording equipment with scores more internal wires, is then mastered via more equipment, played back with a CD player with all it's own internal wiring and circuit boards to a preamp with tons more wiring and circuits to an amp with additional boards and wires connecting all it's capacitors, resistors, transistors, etc, to the output stage.

Yet those interconnects that are, for instance, hooking up the CD player to the Preamp are critical to the sound? What about the other million miles of wire of various gauges and quality that the signal has already traversed?

Hey, don't get me wrong, if you think interconnects make a big difference in the sound and are worth the premium bucks, go for it. Let's just say I remain skeptical...

 

I tend to believe that cables can make a difference provided you are using them on equipment that gives them the opportunity to shine . I really don't see any reasoning though in spending a lot on cables and using them with
an inexpensive amp or receiver and components.

 

Sheffield's Drum/Track record is one of my test-CDs... I do like Ron Tutt riding on the cymbals... a good track to test all kind of components.

 

Although it may sound like I am taking the other point of view despite my having spent some $$ on audio cables & power conditioners already, I just have to play devil's advocate here and ask: why should I (you) spend the extra $$ on these things in our hi fi systems, if the thought comes to mind that- were the same things necessary, say..., upgrading the power cord on John Lennon's amplifier when he recorded (whatever) song he did with The Beatles? Or would using a different electric guitar cord connected to John's amplifier alter the course of History and the resulting audipohile sound as we hear it now for all eternity? In other words, can it not be argued that - why should an audio listener spend all his/her $$ on cables etc... in the listener playback system.., if the source itself (John's guitar amp cord, the brand of Paul's bass strings, George's guitar cable or ---->whatever,---> the wall outlet voltage that day in 1966 in Abbey Road Studios..... if no-one was fanatical about these things at the Source, whats the purpose of doing these hi fi tweaks at the listener end??

 

I used to use Monster speaker cable. Sounded OK...
Then I decided to try something else. About ten years ago I bought some Tributaries 12 gauge wire at $8 a foot. I was surprised at how soft and flexible it was and it used pure copper. The music sounded warmer and more open and natural compared to the Monster 14 gauge I had used previously. I'm still using it.

ICs i've used are all over the place. Until I try the Grovers, I prefer MIT, Kimber PBJ, and Musica 500. The worst I have ever used is Audioquest Topaz.

I think the idea Steve was making is that the bottom line is to choose what sounds best to you, while still sounding something like natural.

 

Well, some would say that doing so would sound better!

IMO, the base test for the "perfect reproduction" in a home stereo system should be a direct comparison to the master tapes played back on the same system. Whatever gets you closest to that sound is the most correct.

Compared to master tape playback in the studio, most home stereos are probably very imperfect reproducers of the recorded signal, and it takes a lot of work to come close to the point where you are certain of what Lennon's original sound was, let alone what change a different cord would make. (Did that make sense?)

I've never had the chance to listen to a master tape, but my guess is that on a decent system with master tape playback changes to power cords/cables/interconnects would be very obvious.

John K.

 

Or something as simple as unplugging some cables and then plugging them back in.... Listen to one of your fave discs, go pull the cable you use from the jacks on your cd player and preamp, plug them back and listen again at the same level - heck, I'll betcha things sound a little different - better/worse, I won't say which... Remember, it never hurts to try something out that might seem insignificant, and a good shop will let you take things home for a test drive in your own stereo (where it matters the most - using a setup in a store will not produce the same results at home)...

 

Is there any possibility of having a FAQ section somewhere here on the forum where a collection of these types of posts from Steve can be made available?

As someone who still has plenty to learn, I find posts like this an invaluable resource (and I'm sure many other people do too). While I've found a few of these postings from Steve in my random reading of various threads, I hate to think of the ones I've missed and/or have yet to find. It would be nice to have these all in one spot.

Just a suggestion (and I'll also post this in the off topic/forum requests area).

Thanks,

Dan

 

Casino, A good manufacture will match the impedances very carefully within a given piece of equipment so that the effect of the internal wires is much less than that of the interconnects that we use to "wire" our various pieces of equipment together. I am not saying that bad things cannot happen to a signal within a piece of equipment, I am just saying that good equipment tends to keep that to a minimum. I remember reading an article in Stereophile several years ago about why the matching networks that come on some cables do not work as well as one would hope.

 

I hear ya, ALP, but there are also so many pieces of equipment involved between the actual musical performance and the final playback in the home that how can you even imagine how each one of these cables alters the sound (if they do)? All I'm saying is that the interconnect you use to connect your own CD player to your preamp is only one of dozens involved in the whole process. Then there's your speaker wire... If every one of these copper lengths has it's own "sound," it would seem that almost nothing would be "accurate."

Someday I'd like to experiment, but it's a costly proposition with a dubious payback.

 

Or the exotic power cables to plug into your wall, which has miles of ordinary wire behind it.

I hear differences in cables. Changes in purity, or graininess come to mind. I suppose a multi-stranded affair might make the signal a bit diffuse. I made some DIY interconnects with Radio Shack low guage magnet wire (single strand), packing tape and RCA plugs. They sound really clean and fast. As good or better than market cables. But when the music is good, and your mood is good, all wire sounds great. I never have the urge to upgrade anything when the music/mood is good.

 

Beagle (or anyone else): Any thoughts or recommendations as to which cables (interconnects and/or speaker wire) tend to minimize "graininess" - sometimes a troublesome phenomenon in the digital world? As I mentioned above, I'm a bit of a skeptic on this cable business, but I try to keep an open mind...

 

It depends on what you mean. I hear a certain edginess or digital fatigue on all red book CD's. If that's what you mean by graininess then IMHO there is nothing you can do for it. You might also want to check that it is not your CDP. I completely agree with Grover that cables should not be used to solve equipment problems. Having said all that I find Kimber to have no grain and very easy to listen to.

 

Agree - I notice the same thing on many CD's. So maybe one of these days I'll check out Kimber (or Grover).

 

Here's my take on all this: the best wires tend to be expensive, neutral and revealing, while accomodating for the low bass frequencies which can mess up everything in a budget cable. Many cables are sold (and bought) to compensate for a system or room which is too bright or too dull. If your system or room is too dull it will never really sing, no matter what cables you use to compensate for this problem. If the sound is too bright, try switching from dynamic to dipole speakers, from solid state to tubes, or try incorporating some inexpensive room treatment to see if it is one of these or the cables that are the problem. Along with tests like Steve suggest, borrowing or auditioning equipment, room treatments and cables is probably the best way to see if it is your system or cable that is neutral. The more revealing your preamp and amp are, the more important cables are. If your LPs sound great but your redbook CDs sound grainy, it may be just your CD player that needs an upgrade - I can recommend the Linn players, others like Rega.

 

I can hear differences in cables quite clearly at times. The problem is everything I hear is slight in nature. I've never heard a revolutionary change yet. Perhaps if I used the absolute cheapest zip wire vs. some of the most engineered wire available the difference would huge but I never audition zip cord! I never audition wire that costs more than my components either! So I guess I will never be "floored" by the "amazing clarity" or "Holographic soundstage" that "some" (wire of the month) is capable of.

Honestly wire can indeed be used to induce subtle changes to ones system. Small changes to the overall "system character" is reasonable. Eye opening, Jaw to the floor changes are, in no particular order, best left to software, source, speakers, and room acoustics. To a lesser degree but no less important amps and pre-amps. Cables are the final step used to fine tune.

Well... This is my opinion as of 7-30-03!! If I am ever blown away by a wire change while fine tuning with wire auditions you all will be the first to know!

Vedric

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Poll: Can You Hear Differences in Cables & Interconnects?

Actually, I believe that defines the breed

 

As you said "This is my opinion as of 7-30-03".

I experienced such a jaw-dropping change adding a TG Audio power cord to the Arcam Alpha 10 amp in my old system. I also experienced a similar revelation adding a Cardas Golden power cord to the Arcam Alpha 9 CDP in my old system. I do agree that speaker cables and interconnects don't normally produce a giant improvement, but my experience with after market power cords on mid range gear was pretty fantastic.

Regards,
Geoff

 

Phono cables

I used to be of the opinion that cables/interconnects made little, if any, difference. About 5 years ago the factory supplied interconnects for my Technics TT went bad (a broken wire near the connector); on a whim, I decided to purchase some Monster Cable (I know some of you guys hate their products, but here in Panama City, FL, it's the best we have access to) to replace the original. Well, I was utterly dumbfounded in the difference, suddenly I was able to hear all sorts of detail I had missed before, and as a result spent the next several weeks listening to most of my record collection as if for the first time. Even my wife, who admits to having a tin ear said she could hear the difference. As far as speaker wire goes, I do think that the difference can be less noticeable, but I can still hear it. I now buy the best I can afford.

 

Purchase some Electrostatic Loudspeakers e.g. (exempli grati, by grace of example) Martin Logan CLSIIZ's and you will certainly hear not just a modicum of difference, but a clear cut and dry difference!!!
Enjoy,
*****nEbIn*****

 

Well, so much for not actually discussing wires/cables here.

It looks like it's about 50% "yes" and 50% "no/maybe" about whether those on this forum can hear a difference between different cables. I'm actually a bit surprised as I thought there would be a higher percentage of "yes" votes.

As some of you may have noticed, I was careful in my wording of the original poll: it was can you (personally) *hear* a difference rather than do you think there *are* differences. I wonder if that distinction would change the results any?

For me, I have yet to definitively hear any audible differences between interconnects or speaker wires - but then I have only performed A/B tests occassionally and in cursory ways. My system is, I feel, more than adequate for my tastes, but few audiophiles would call it high end. I also don't feel my ears are good enough to judge such things. That said, I have little doubt that some people can hear subtle differences between wires. More power to 'em, I say, though I also will admit to finding the audiophile tweaking bug more a curse than a blessing.