***POLL: Least Favorite Decade for Music? Your vote is desperately needed!***

I think I can understand a sort of backlash against Cobain and Nirvana. It's a reaction to the wall of critics and fans building up a certain musician to a god-like status. If you don't really like that music, it can get rather maddening!

Corbain and Morrison both made an impact on a musical movement in their respective times and then died young. Inevitably the myth-making starts.

Sort of like worshiping at the alter of The Doors.
While I enjoyed the early grunge movement, I was barely born when Morrison died. To me The Doors are a bunch of drugged out pretentious second-rate lounge jazz players who've been made into rock gods. I grew up wondering why this messy mush was SO special. When I questioned it, I was met with anger and frustration from Doors fans. Even people my age were programmed to like The Doors without even thinking about it.

So, I guess I feel your frustration about Nirvana. It's a dicey subject. But I really like them. They're my Doors I guess.

dan c

 

While Doors were never my favourite band I can easily understand their cult. They had it all - talent, mystery, beauty, tragedy, charisma. And the fact is they did superb music.

 

Tovarich!!! How I wish I had a way with words like you do!!

Well put!

 

I hardly consider PLASTIC ONO BAND to represent what myself or most of his fans think of when they remember John Lennon and his gift to the world of music. POB was mostly comedy music anyway. Wasn't it? It did begat National Lampoon's "Magical Misery Tour".

What's ignorant about it? It is against the rules to trash other peoples musical tastes. Nobody's doing that. It does come somewhat as a shock to many people when they make grand statements on how great their "idol" is, only to discover that not everybody shares their tastes and opinions. Then they become oversensitive and cry "no fair", or summon the mods to close the thread. What's the point of that?

My opinion is that Cobain was not very talented. Lack of talent never stopped a lot of people from becoming popular or from being idolized. A certain image is projected and many buy into it. We all do it. Charles Manson was idolized. The Sex Pistols were idolized.

I don't. I find them (or the references in them) to evoke a lot of anger and loneliness. I suppose one could call his lyrics "life affirming" in that his fans are still alive (I think) while the writer is not, having taken his own life.

I still keep Nevermind and In Utero in my CD collection, but I rarely listen to them. The music does not do much for me, and I didn't buy into the "Cobain is God" thing, so it's a bit of a wash for me. Perhaps some day I'll put them on and it will suddenly click. In the meantime, I'd rather listen to American Music Club.

 

My least favorite decade in music? 329-320 B.C. Such a disappointment after the 330's, dontcha know...

 

Well, this is the clincher. I think my suspicion was correct. It is a "generational" thing, apparently regardless of age, to some degree.

Or, it could just be a personal dislike of his music, his style and the image he projected. I wasn't keeping up with the "wall of critics" or their "profound observations" any more than I keep up with daytime soap operas. I just don't like "grunge", regardless of the purveyor.

I don't "worship" at the altar of any musician (nor would I recommend anyone else doing so, either...). I understand it is just an expression, but it implies an almost religious devotion to a group or performer without actually thinking about, questioning or analyzing their "work product". If you're in love with Kurt Cobain (or Jim Morrison, for that matter), if you have chosen to identify so closely with the mythology created around a figure that he or she has taken on some kind of "hero" status for you that is worthy of worship, well, okay, but I would tread lightly when trying to lump other people from other generations into the same "cult" status you may devote to a particular modern performer. I wouldn't deny that the Doors have a certain "cult status" among some people, but besides the obvious superficial comparisons, I would contest any deeper comparison between Nirvana and the Doors. While it may be flattering for Kurt Cobain to be compared favorably to Jim Morrison, I don't think the reverse is true (IMO, obviously).

I was three years old when Jim Morrison died, so I'm not much older than you. As I think I mentioned in the related Thread, I (and most of the people in my age range, where I grew up) had an almost visceral negative reaction to what we perceived to be superficial synth-pop '80s dance music. Music for us was never about dancing, it was about listening. We listened to classic rock. For clarification purposes, I am generally referring to the "big name" groups who were active between 1964 to about 1979, excluding disco or anything disco related: Beatles, Clapton, CCR, CSN&Y, Doors, Bob Dylan, Eagles, Grateful Dead, Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Led Zeppelin, Van Morrison, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Jethro Tull, the Who, (classic) Yes (before the tragedy of their "90210" album), etc. Certainly none of those performers represented the "cutting edge" in music by the time we were making that music our own (1981-1986, 7th through 12th grade) but as I have mentioned elsewhere, they were real people playing real instruments making real music, and it has certainly stood the test of time. We did not dance. We were not "dancers".

I can't imagine that statement eliciting a response from anyone else on this Forum, so please, allow me. I won't waste much time with the "pretentious" issue, except to say that the word had barely even been defined as it relates to music until the '80s (and then the '90s) arrived.

As for "second-rate", let's take a brief look at some of the Doors' musical output. I'll only choose a few songs that even the '80s generation people will most likely be familiar with:

Break on Through (to the other side)
Light My Fire
Love Me Two Times
People are Strange
Hello, I Love You
Touch Me
Roadhouse Blues
Love Her Madly
L.A. Woman
Riders on the Storm

Since I don't think it would be fair to ask you to put up 10 songs from one of your favorite '80s groups that you think rival these or will stand the test of time, I won't even ask you to. Referring to the Doors as "second-rate lounge jazz players" belies a complete and utter lack of knowledge regarding their music, IMO. I have a similar lack of knowledge with regard to Nirvana, but then again, I didn't come out and "spray diarrhea" all over Nirvana by referring to them as "a bunch of drugged out pretentious second-rate lounge jazz players", either.

As far as being "made into rock gods", to each his own I suppose. I just thought they made some great music. It was great 20 years ago, it is great today, and I am confident that it will still be great 20 years from now. Your '80s dance club music and '90s teen-angst grunge has yet to pass that test of time.

As for growing up "wondering why this messy mush was SO special", perhaps your equipment or your software has inhibited your ability to appreciate this music properly. I don't know what equipment you use, but I can highly (and shamelessly...) recommend Steve Hoffman's work on the Doors' first three albums and "L.A. Woman", on either vinyl or gold disc. You might consider giving this so-called "second-rate" band a second chance. Or you might not.

I can't imagine why anyone would contest your viewpoint on the Doors, not around here, anyway. As for being programmed...No. Programmed drum machines, sure. Programmed synthesizers, yep. Programmed, formulaic music? Lots of it. Wrong era, though. That sounds much more like your chosen era, in my opinion. Those of us who happen to like the Doors were not programmed to like it any more than we were programmed to like the other classic rock groups mentioned above. Unless of course we were programmed to like real musicians playing real instruments. That doesn't seem like "programming" though, that seems more like an appreciation for a diversity of genuine human talent, and a recognition of their ability to actually play a wide variety of real instruments, with a degree of technical and artistic virtuosity rarely achieved before (and rarely since, IMHO).

I guess...

 

I've never had a problem distancing myself from the hype..and for the record, I'm a fan of NEVERMIND, and I have the CD and vinyl editions, not to mention vinyl for IN UTERO and UNPLUGGED(and of course, at least a half-dozen 45's, if not more). I listen to the music, and don't concern myself with the backstory of the people involved, beyond for info purposes.

 

Oh, please...you're so full of ****. Nirvana SAVED rock music. The only music they "destroyed" or "pushed underground" was hair metal. That's it. And THANK GOD because hair metal SUCKS! Everything else you've mentioned is a delusional fantasy.

 

That's funny. I just heard the album "Strange Days" for the first time and I thought the musicianship was superb, not to mention the engineering/sound quality.

 

Don't know if Kurt & the boys 'saved' rock music, but to be fair, I thought they really shook things up with "Teen Spirit" and "Come As You Are," which really kicked serious hiney.....that's needed every so often, and it hasn't happened in too long....

 

To think I actually took your opinion seriously....of course I should have known better by looking at your avatar.

 

For a few years they did. When Kurt died, so did the current wave of rock music. It's the same as when the 27 club died and ended the 60's. I don't see how it's their "fault" that music sucks now.

 

It isn't their fault, anymore than you can blame the Beatles for the worst elements of prog rock or psychedelia...not their fault if lesser talents couldn't cut it...but even those lesser talents have there fans....

 

Agreed. I don't see how Nirvana are responsible for turning rock music into a "wasteland". That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

 

I agree. The worst thing was every label wanted their "Nirvana", and we got a bunch of clones that didn't have the talent. Same as when Alanis hit big we suddenly got a bunch of "I'm really angry and PMS'd" chicks. The "board room" is what ruins the music. Not the musicians.

 

I voted for the 80s because that's when gangster rap really began to emerge. rap is a medium of tremendous potential. but between stupid songs like drop it like it's hot with no melody and the violent songs of the late 80s started to come out. Artists like OutKast are at least on the right path.
as for the 90s, that's when rock music I think suffered the most, except for indie. lowest vinyl sales were in the early 90s. songs began to sound alike and radio started to decline. anger rock and deathmetal... bleh. no melody! and worst of all... the boy bands.
I can definitely understand why the 90s are so close to the 80s in this poll.
[please correct me if I'm wrong with my facts]

 

The '60s and '70s rock was (and will always be) my favorite...it's my generation. IMO the '80s still put out decent rock, and the '90s had it share also. This decade I don't hardly know any bands except for a few, so I usually listen to the latest albums put out by older bands from the '70s and '80s. I'm growing on Radiohead...their tunes are pretty good.

 

Doors fans are pretty passionate, so I expected this.

I deleted a response that I put together 'cause it's not going to go anywhere but down. Let's just say that I disagree with your statement that The Doors were virtuosos.

I see your dis of my choice of music. I'm confident that I can easily list 10 songs by some select musicians making music in the 80s if you'd like, but that's not relevant. It all comes down to taste. (and no, 'Safety Dance' wouldn't be on that list... )

My point was that I find comparing the myth-like status of Cobain and Morrison rather interesting concidering that they do span two very different generations. More so than the Lennon/Cobain discussion. It's hard to find people who have strong anti-Lennon view. I have known quite a few people who agree with my views on The Doors. We're not the majority, but the anti-Nirvana crowd aren't either.

dan c

 

I like the Doors, but I'm not a fanatic. You're right about the "virtuoso" part. Densmore sounded like he was falling down a flight of stairs half the time!
We all have our bands that we hold close to our hearts. It's only natural to get defensive.

 

I thought Densmore was/is an excellent drummer. Sure, he wasn't Elvin Jones or anything but his jazz/rock style for a great fit for those songs IMO.

 

I like him too. But he's not a virtuoso as he and the rest of The Doors were described earlier.

 

He was as unique as any rock drummer you can name though. And in rock music that's what counts, yes?- not so much viruosity, no?

As a drummer he's always been an influence on me. Even the falling down the stairs fills

Peace Love and Densmore than I asked for
Marky

 

Rap...hmmm...rap is fine as long as it has something valuble to say. Even Ice Cube and NWA has something to say, even though it was violent. Where it got lost is when it became gratuitous.

I like the party rap and x-rated rap. It's not supposed to have a purpose except to be fun.

The fact that most rap has no melody doesn't bother me because the type of music I grew up with was very rhythmic, and sometimes with very little melody.

 

Rap with a "message" can be an incredible art form, IMHO. But silly fun rap can be cool too. Sir Mix-A-Lot, for example. Even though it's sophomoric humor it takes a decent level of smarts and wit to pull it off. The rap I hear in the background today doesn't seem to measure up. Maybe it's my "old fart" showing up, I dunno.

dan c

 

I think my problem with rap (and I don't really have any because I don't really listen to it) is the talking and what they are saying. In normal life I can't take listening to a person talk at me and talk at me-but of course I have to put up with that somewhat anyway- so I'm sure as heck not going to buy a record that's just gonna talk my head off. Most of the time the rapper sounds angry at me too and he sounds like he's gonna beat me up and bang my ho

As far as the music part of rap is concerned- it can be very interesting at times -but at other times the lyrics make me wonder -"how disgusting can lyrics possibly get?"

Having said all that- I'm a big fan of NWH.

But rap (IMO) really would be better if they could figure out a way to get rid of all of the talking. Just like grunge would've been better without all the complaining.

Peace Love and Biggie Smalls like Teen Spirit
Marky