Problem with burning CD-R's

Like Grant said, this relates to the newer burners. My how time flies - it seems like I just bought new burners for my Mac and PC, but they are now almost 2 years old, which is why I feel safer burning at 2-4x at the most. To be honest with you, the "non essential" reference CDs that I've burned at 8x probably sound fine, but I've never carefully inspected them. I have Sony burners for all of my computers and I exclusively use Taiyoyuden Gold CDs. 2x on the older burners is actually the best middle ground for accurate burning. The proof that my burners are of the "older style" is that they occassionally won't even allow data CDs to be burned at 12x - an error message will pop up (8x is usually the max).

 

My burner is over a year old and tops out at 8x. When I burned an almost full 80 mins at 4x or 8x on the newer CRC made 40x cd-r's, my CD-rom drive at work starts to crap out at about 70 min in - it skips and loses track. Some older 16x CRC cd-r's didn't have that problem.

However, Taiyo Yuden 40x'ers burned at 4x work beautifully on everything I've got - home dvd-rom, work cd-rom, old Sony cd player, and van cd changer. I haven't tried 8x on the TY's yet. I figure, why change what works.

 

Question -

I am using an old burner, which still works very well, that came with my Pentium III 600mhz. The top burn speed is 2X. I have yet to have a problem burning discs rated at very high speeds via Disc-at-once at 2X. Are the inferences in this thread to indicate that I should probably purchase a new and faster burner, even though my current burner works great with all the blanks I have ever used?

Just curious.

 

In Nero and Roxio CD Creator the buffer protection is ALWAYS optional! One has to nose around the various tabs or look around in the window to see the options. I know, I always confirm which boxes are checked or unchecked before I burn anything.

BUT, on your post: I can hear sound degredation on anything burned higher than 4x. It's hard to know what to listen for, but it's there!

 

Why wouldn't you want buffer protection when burning cds?

 

Oh, yes! THis is correct! I DO NOT recommend anyone burn their music CD-Rs at the highest speeds. Just because the capability is there, and you can, doesn't mean you should! And, in most PC configurations, you are not goingto get away with burning so fast without that burn-proof feature turned on. If you set your recording speed higher than 8x or 12x, that box will automatically be checked for you. Perhaps that is why some of you think it is non-defeatable. You guys are burning your CDs too fast!

Temporary, disposable data CDs that you burn, you can probably get away with high speeds, but I do not recommend it for music!

 

My three-year-old HP burner topped out at 2x,and in the last year I noticed it had problems burning blanks rated faster than 24x, in that the disks started skipping and would not initialize well in some players. But any media I burned rated 16x or lower came out perfect.

Again, the speed ratings mean something and should not be ignored. You may actually have to buy a faster burner to accommodate the faster blanks.

 

First, I don't need it, nor want it for serious music burns.

Second, re-read the above posts for the technical explainations of why it's not a good idea.

Whenpeople create and implement these things into software and hardware, they are not thinking of music. They are thinking of avarage people making data CDs. And, speed is a good marketing tool. Who wouldn't want to burn a CD as fast as possible? People buy into anything that lets them go faster. It's like loud CDs. People like it, even though it isn't always good for them.

My primary concern when making a CD-R is not how fast I can burn it, but how accurrate I can burn, and how durable it is, and most importantly, how it's going to SOUND!

 

I recently got a new Plextor drive that won't burn any slower than 4x. If I run of copies of CDs I made on my old HP burner onto better CDRs with EAC, does anyone expect that I will encounter any problems?

 

You shouldn't. Your CD-Rs should be read just like any commercial CD.

 

Even if they were burned at single speed?

 

I agree, but using the buffer will not do a thing to the sound. If you are concerned about the laser stopping and starting, that is one thing, but the buffer's main job is keeping the flow of information constant so the laser doesn't have to stop.

Don't forget all cd and dvd players have buffers built in to their designs. I'm not talking about jitter reduction devices, but data buffers (small as they are in cd players) that take up slack during any sort of error correction.

Also, while I agree that my slower burns sound better than faster burns, the amount of jitter that is present on the disc when cutting is only detrimental when it causes reading errors.

There are only two kinds of jitter that are have an effect on sound: Interface jitter (going between the transport to the dacs) and mode conversion jitter (when audio is converted from analog to digital and vice versa). Not much can be done about the latter if its encoded in your music.

In other words, when talking about burnt cds, once the data is read off the disc it follow's the cd player's clock. As long as you aren't making the player work too hard picking up the data (errors), you should be ok.

If the jitter is in the audio signal itself, there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

No. Lots can be done! Jitter CAN be removed from any data stream. It need not be permanant! Jitter manifsests itself as a glassy, or glaring sound in the music.

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Again, jitter CAN be removed from any data stream. It need not be permanant!

The whole point of NOT using buffer-underrun protection schemes is to ensure that it will be compatable with as many types of players and CD Roms as possible. A disc written with TAO, or buffer underrun protection is NOT standard. Also, having those increased errors on a CD-R can make the disc unreadable over time.

 

As I said, there are different types of jitter.

Yes, a type of jitter can be removed: interface induced jitter. You can not remove mode conversion sourced jitter. If it happened in the conversion from analog to digital or vice versa, it's there in the data before it was pressed on the cd -- nothing can be done about it. When hi-end manufacturers talk about jitter reduction, the jitter they talk about is the kind that happens in the data's trip from the disc to the dacs.

I think you are confusing using a buffer and buffer underrun protection.

The buffer is not the "burn proof" feature you worry about. TAO and buffer underrun protection are two different things. A cd player reading a cd-r knows no difference between a disc that was burned with a buffer or without it.

My burner has a very large 8mb buffer, so I don't use any protection, but I wouldn't worry about using it because I've never had an underrun problem. However, one thing is certain if you do have a burn that turns out a coaster, it's a lot less playable than a disc where the burn-proof feature kicked in.

 

I'm not worried about it. I don't use it!

Now I think YOU are getting confused! First, I know full well what TAO is and what a buffer is, and what a buffer underrun is. I've been doing this stuff for six years! No, a CD player does not know how the CD-R was recorded, but it does know that it may not be able to read through those errors easily. It also knows that it has to jump to different sectors on a disc made with TAO to read it continuously, and some have difficulty doing it. That is not the only point I was making. The point is that such a disc is NOT standard. Period.

Mine does too, the Yamaha F1...

No, what matters more is how fast your bus can fill the buffer.

For the record, I don't burn coasters unless I do something to cause it. Second, burn a CD-R at a speed your PC configuration can handle, and don't do other tasks while the thing is burning, turn off screensavers, antivirus software, and other needless background activities, and you won't need that burn-proof feature!

Again, if you use a burn-proof feature, you may not be making a red-book standard, compatable CD-R if it kicks in. That IS a fact! That you may not make a red-book compatable CD-R may not be important to you, but it is to me, with what I do and desire to accomplish. I put too much time and effort into making my CD-Rs to be taking risks with the playability, longevity, and compatability of them to use buffer underrun technology.

 

My $20 Aopen burner has less jitter at 8x, 12x, 16x, and 24x than the Plextor has at 4x.

I hate slow drives.

 

Hey all,

I'm looking for clarification on "frame boundaries". Where exactly do I split the tracks?

I am using Cool Edit 1.2. I already have my time format set at Compact Disc 75fps. Grant recommended elsewhere setting the Snapping to Snap to Ruler (Fine). Do I check or uncheck Snap to Cues here?

I have mixed results splitting my continuous mix CD-R's so I'd really like to learn how to do this right. I still get some ticks trying to create a new track, and sometimes I seem to nail it perfectly.

Do I just go by the tick marks on the time line after my set up is corrected?

 

Well...looking at all the various opinions about it, there is NO one correct way to do any of this. When I burn a CD:

1. I always use BURN-Proof, and have NEVER had it fail;

2. I burn at maximum speed all the time, and never had a bad disc becasue of it;

3. I NEVER shut down all of my applications...with a modern computer and WinXP (Pro), there is no need to;

4. I use a variety of programs for burning, and while all of them do a competent job, I haven't had any burn errors from any of them (I now use CD Architect exclusively for audio CD burning, as opposed to those do-it-all programs);

5. Other than EAC (which is worth every penny I paid for it...which is absolutely nothing), any program I've used for ripping has worked just fine;

6. Defragmenting *might* improve things, but I once mistakenly burned a CD across my network...and it, too, came out fine.

If you are burning "coasters" and/or getting glitches in your finished work, you have a problem. If you like the results you get (you like the sound you're getting), using whatever hardware/software and settings you use, go with it.

 

Rudy, you atre having all this luck because of that Burn-broof technology. Disable it and try burning a CD. Your luck will change.

See, that burn-proof stuff prevents burning coasters. But, your resulting CD-R does NOT adhere to red-book standards, and may, over time, actually develop more errors which may create problems with playback.

 

Click this link:

http://support.syntrillium.com/cep/tutorials.html

 

How does one actually SHUT OFF Burn Proof? I couldn't figure it out. I had some problems with my old burner, probably because it was on the fritz. I installed this and EVERY CD plays in my car perfectly (8 or 9 year old Pioneer CD player), when previously, nothing I burned would play without static or something. A CD burned on a stand-alone burner used to play fine though.

 

Your CD burning software has a checkbox in the window that allows you to configure your CD burning settings. If you are using CD creator, you have to click on the advanced button.

All burn-proof technology does is make CD-Burning dummy-proof, as many users have no clue as how to shut dowm programs, disable antivirus, don't know what defragging is, think you can surf the net while burning, and Lord knows, XP has 10 million things running in the background.

 

I am running WinME right now. I try not to do anything, but I know that there is tons of stuff going on. I try to shut everything down. If there is no need for Burn Proof to be "activated", then it should never kick in right?

I have been using EAC to burn with since I got the new burner. I haven't tried EZ CD Creator with it yet.

 

Wow, that was a cool explanation. Thanks!

I was able to burn my disc successfully without ticks!

 

I agree that is old and outdated thinking now.

A slightly dated, but good link:

http://www.emedialive.com/EM2000/starrett5.html