Just ordered this from ImportCDs...looking forward to receiving it tomorrow. They offered next day shipping for about $13. That's actually somewhat reasonable, and I'll be guaranteed to have it before the weekend. I'm heading out of town Sunday - so I'll need to get cracking to hear most of the set before we head out...
I run analog outs from processor to amps, so it only takes a minute to switch the fronts to back. Since the first time I did it, I have upgraded my rears, and now they are my fronts. Partially because the switch made me realize what a difference full range rears make. I knew they would sound better but I was surprised how much. I am more of an old school guy and instead of Audyssey, I prefer old school tweaks, less processing and short signal paths. I have zero problems with the lead vocals coming from the front right speaker only and secondary vocals from left. I hear them fine and it leaves more room for the large band.
Review of this set posted here: Chicago: Quadio Blu-ray » (I quickly scanned the last 2-3 pages of posts in this thread and didn't see it; mea culpa if it has already been posted.)
The reviewer even tested with a sound bar. And yes, the vocals sounded recessed He also mentioned Rhino acknowledging the mono problem on disc 2...
I have to say "Crirics Choice" on VI is really strange. The fuzzy, echoing is really distracting. Hit sure what they were trying to do with it. Glad rest of the album is mixed normally.
Thanks for the awesome info! Synth queen Wendy Carlos also has pages on her site devoted to the exploration of speaker layouts for surround sound. She has descriptions of Optimum Quadraphony and Quadraphonic Folly of course the whole section on surround is fascinating reading. Came here to post that too. Looks like the reviewer is at least aware of SHF: buuuuut
Eh. Blu-ray.com can get it hilariously wrong just as easy as anybody. I trust the Quadraphonic Quad forum reviews too.
That review seemed somewhat thoughtful. He mentioned compression, and only one guy complained about that here or on QQ, hence the squeeky wheel. That one dude kept posting over and over again and it got a bit of traction but I feel was debunked in the end. If this release was truly compressed, everyone here would have been all over that, and rightly so. The pitchforks would have been flying!
I don't think it sounds compressed. I'm not saying NO dynamic range compression was used. Maybe some was, maybe it wasn't, but I don't find it to sound like that has taken any toll. I think the EQ sounds very good. The bass is strong, but well defined and not bloated. At least for the two I've listened to (CTA and III).
I know that the Foobar2000 DR readout is not everything, but the following DR readout of the stereo section absolutely match with my listening experience on stereo of these discs so far. I just checked the DR values for the stereo part of the BluRays for the first 7 discs as 320kB MP3. I do not know how to get the BluRay values directly, but DR numbers can only get worse with MP3 conversion, not better IICR . Only the stereo layer of Chicago(II) had 'not so nice' DR-values: ' Wake Up Sunshine' and 'Prelude (Memories of Love pt1)' with a DR of 8 are the lowest dynamic wise so far. 'To Be Free (Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon pt6)', 'Now More Than Ever (Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon pt7)', ' P.M. Mourning (Memories of Love pt3)' and ' It Better End Soon 4th Movement' with a DR of 9 are the only other tracks with a dynamic range below 10 in the whole set (Chicago XI and the Best of neither read out nor listened to, yet). Stereo for CTA and Chicago III to Chicago VIII have nicly high numbers, all tracks with a DR around 13. Here are the foobar2000 readouts of the stereo sections from the BluRays that I did so far: foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:39:03 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago Transit Authority -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -2.87 dB -17.90 dB 6:36 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter01 DR13 -3.80 dB -19.34 dB 4:36 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter02 DR13 -4.41 dB -19.18 dB 7:57 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter03 DR13 -4.12 dB -18.53 dB 5:00 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter04 DR14 -2.60 dB -18.71 dB 3:24 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter05 DR13 -4.03 dB -18.61 dB 8:40 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter06 DR10 -6.93 dB -18.81 dB 6:55 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter07 DR12 -3.20 dB -16.81 dB 6:14 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter08 DR14 -2.52 dB -18.75 dB 7:41 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter09 DR11 -10.72 dB -24.66 dB 0:57 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter10 DR13 -3.81 dB -19.02 dB 4:15 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter11 DR12 -4.52 dB -18.94 dB 14:45 ?-Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority BR Stereo).chapter12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 12 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:42:54 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR10 -0.15 dB -10.92 dB 4:06 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter01 DR10 -0.70 dB -11.89 dB 3:11 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter02 DR10 -0.32 dB -11.44 dB 5:33 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter03 DR10 -0.34 dB -12.29 dB 6:37 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter04 DR8 -0.50 dB -10.00 dB 2:33 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter05 DR10 0.00 dB -10.69 dB 3:15 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter06 DR10 -0.37 dB -11.58 dB 1:15 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter07 DR10 -0.68 dB -13.26 dB 0:58 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter08 DR10 0.00 dB -11.01 dB 1:35 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter09 DR11 -0.30 dB -12.26 dB 3:00 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter10 DR9 -0.32 dB -11.16 dB 1:11 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter11 DR9 -0.50 dB -11.25 dB 1:31 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter12 DR10 -0.43 dB -12.65 dB 5:11 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter13 DR11 -0.48 dB -12.38 dB 4:53 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter14 DR8 -6.55 dB -18.91 dB 1:10 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter15 DR10 -1.53 dB -15.81 dB 2:06 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter16 DR9 -1.17 dB -13.73 dB 1:59 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter17 DR11 -3.11 dB -19.12 dB 4:01 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter18 DR10 -0.97 dB -12.81 dB 2:27 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter19 DR10 -0.43 dB -11.86 dB 3:46 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter20 DR10 -0.90 dB -11.92 dB 3:21 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter21 DR9 -0.79 dB -11.57 dB 0:50 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter22 DR10 -0.75 dB -12.14 dB 2:53 ?-Chicago (Chicago II Quadio Box BR Stereo).chapter23 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 23 Official DR value: DR10 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:45:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 0.00 dB -13.99 dB 9:19 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter01 DR12 0.00 dB -14.41 dB 2:39 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter02 DR13 -0.23 dB -15.11 dB 3:15 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter03 DR12 -0.01 dB -13.57 dB 4:49 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter04 DR13 0.00 dB -14.20 dB 2:46 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter05 DR14 0.00 dB -15.19 dB 1:30 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter06 DR12 0.00 dB -12.72 dB 2:21 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter07 DR14 -2.94 dB -21.45 dB 5:41 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter08 DR13 -0.27 dB -15.11 dB 2:46 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter09 DR13 0.00 dB -14.06 dB 7:30 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter10 DR13 -0.09 dB -13.84 dB 4:31 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter11 DR12 0.00 dB -13.24 dB 3:36 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter12 DR12 -1.20 dB -15.28 dB 1:54 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter13 DR11 -0.39 dB -13.34 dB 0:50 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter14 DR12 -0.24 dB -13.89 dB 0:49 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter15 DR11 -1.61 dB -14.28 dB 0:51 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter16 DR12 0.00 dB -13.78 dB 1:10 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter17 DR15 -4.59 dB -22.92 dB 1:04 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter18 DR11 -4.30 dB -19.01 dB 1:07 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter19 DR13 -0.27 dB -15.17 dB 2:31 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter20 DR10 -0.58 dB -16.79 dB 2:37 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter21 DR12 0.00 dB -12.98 dB 6:26 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter22 DR12 -0.04 dB -14.05 dB 1:37 ?-Chicago (Chicago III Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter23 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 23 Official DR value: DR12 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:47:10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago V -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -3.79 dB -20.19 dB 4:57 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter01 DR14 -3.41 dB -18.88 dB 3:52 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter02 DR14 -3.75 dB -19.10 dB 5:00 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter03 DR12 -5.46 dB -20.29 dB 2:58 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter04 DR13 -3.08 dB -18.05 dB 4:18 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter05 DR12 -3.08 dB -17.89 dB 3:54 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter06 DR13 -2.92 dB -17.03 dB 4:00 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter07 DR13 -4.72 dB -19.70 dB 6:15 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter08 DR12 -3.72 dB -18.16 dB 5:59 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter09 DR13 -4.67 dB -21.10 dB 3:57 ?-Chicago V (Chicago Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 10 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:49:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago VI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -6.71 dB -24.10 dB 2:48 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter01 DR14 -5.25 dB -21.91 dB 3:46 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter02 DR14 -5.06 dB -20.69 dB 3:00 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter03 DR16 -3.05 dB -20.65 dB 3:33 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter04 DR14 -4.45 dB -20.89 dB 5:01 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter05 DR13 -4.35 dB -20.53 dB 3:43 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter06 DR13 -4.55 dB -19.88 dB 3:55 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter07 DR13 -5.76 dB -20.52 dB 3:31 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter08 DR14 -4.72 dB -20.96 dB 4:50 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter09 DR13 -5.21 dB -20.40 dB 4:17 ?-Chicago (Chicago VI Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 10 Official DR value: DR14 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:51:19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago VII -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -6.54 dB -22.74 dB 2:54 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter01 DR15 -4.34 dB -21.17 dB 6:26 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter02 DR14 -5.77 dB -22.69 dB 10:07 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter03 DR14 -5.10 dB -22.30 dB 4:16 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter04 DR14 -6.34 dB -21.42 dB 1:55 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter05 DR15 -3.04 dB -20.60 dB 5:21 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter06 DR15 -4.54 dB -22.21 dB 3:37 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter07 DR14 -6.30 dB -22.25 dB 4:30 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter08 DR15 -4.20 dB -21.21 dB 3:42 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter09 DR14 -5.39 dB -20.77 dB 5:26 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter10 DR14 -4.71 dB -21.58 dB 6:25 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter11 DR14 -6.11 dB -21.98 dB 4:43 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter12 DR14 -4.64 dB -20.46 dB 4:18 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter13 DR14 -5.35 dB -21.02 dB 4:38 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter14 DR17 -2.63 dB -21.04 dB 5:24 ?-Chicago (Chicago VII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter15 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 15 Official DR value: DR14 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.2.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-07-01 07:54:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / Chicago VIII -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR14 -6.95 dB -22.53 dB 3:41 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter01 DR14 -7.73 dB -23.17 dB 4:29 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter02 DR14 -6.62 dB -22.70 dB 4:13 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter03 DR15 -6.64 dB -22.83 dB 4:48 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter04 DR11 -11.31 dB -24.40 dB 2:06 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter05 DR13 -7.36 dB -23.21 dB 3:08 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter06 DR13 -7.71 dB -23.38 dB 7:21 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter07 DR13 -6.52 dB -20.82 dB 2:50 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter08 DR14 -7.76 dB -23.68 dB 3:29 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter09 DR13 -7.50 dB -22.68 dB 3:36 ?-Chicago (Chicago VIII Quadio Box Set BR Stereo).chapter10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 10 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 48000 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================
Ok, out of curiosity, I fiddled a little around with Chicago(II) Track 5 'Wake Up Sunshine' and created my own stereo fold down of the Quad mix. Woww So much nicer than the accidental mono mix in the stereo section of the BluRay. (By the way, I also made a Wav file of the Stereo section and that one also only had a DR value of 8, so no difference to the MP3 values posted above.) My self created stereo fold down had a DR of 12 and sounds much more natural and pleasent than the original BR stereo section. The bass is nicely less prominent, better relation between the several instruments,... But I significiantly had to increase the overall volume level on the fold down, because the Stereo fold down of the Quad mixes does have a much lesser peak volume level than the original BR stereo section. I'm now really looking forward to the corrected disk of Chicago(II) with the correct original stereo mix on it.
Actually, no, MP3 compression can add +1 DR point to the original lossless values. And if you use Foobar, you can analyse the 192/24 Blu-Ray files directly. Why are they compressed to MP3?
Thank you for this information about DR for MP3 vs original data. I just quickly used the MP3-files that I had already created anyways for my car and mobile listening. I tried it in several ways, but I cannot manage to make the BluRay content directly visible, audible or analyzable with Foobar. The BR just won't be shown in Foobar, only the BR Drive letter is shown and the Drive settings. Everything else (Rip, Play, Add to Playlist) is grayed out. Or are you talking about a 192/24 rip of the BR disk? That's something I do not need personally. If I want the best quality at home, I take the original disks and play them in my player. So I use my time in creating the files I need for myself, but I will be glad if someone could do (and post) the analysis of the 192/24 data for all these disks. I'll be very surprised, if there is any or at least a significent difference between MP3 320 and the original data, as you had also written '...no, MP3 compression can add +1 DR point to the original lossless values...'. I just wanted to show that theses disks have a great dynamic range, even if you take one point away from the MP3 values... Enjoy listening this great set.
Got you. It just occured to me that if you made MP3s yourself, surely you must have the original extracted lossless data somewhere. How did you create your MP3s if you can't rip the BR? Analog outs? That can add several DR points... Anyway that's academic I just wanted to know a little more about your process. And yes, I was talking about 192/24 rips. BR content won't be directly visible in Foobar, you'd have to rip it with another program.
Good to hear that. I started thinking that I was too stupid not to be able to handle a program like Foobar correctly.
No analog out used here. I'm going the easy way without extracting the data first. The ripping tool is directly converting the digital data from the BluRay into MP3 48kHz/320bit (or what ever I enter as setup for the output file). I just had a 2nd look: the tool cannot extract the 192/24 data directly, only down-conversions are possible. Don't want to go too deep into details, as I do not know how far we can go here discussing BR ripping. I don't want to be banned for creating files for my personal use.
Old news maybe, but the set is available for $125 CD shipped from Amazon.ca third party sellers. That is under $100 US
Just got my set last night. Jumped right into Chicago III, an album that has really grown on me over the years. Love it! Just finished Greatest Hits - which I haven't listened to since college (why listen to GH when you have all the albums?). It made the songs new again. Chicago's instrumentation really lends itself to the Quad format, which is distinctly different than 5.1, which I also love. I feel like they've preserved a part of music history that was just about ready to be lost. Rhino definitely gained some respect back on this one.
yes, and I hope this is just the beginning of releasing old quad mixes in the new formats. I've always thought Chicago's quad mixes were excellent, just another reason why the quad 8-tracks can sometimes go three figures.
