Question about Michell record clamp

I just purchased a Michell record clamp to help flatten mildly warped records. While the instructions for applying the clamp seem fairly idiot proof, I can't help but feel that I am doing something wrong. No matter what I do, the record remains suspended above the mat. The problem seems to be that the felt washer that goes on the spindle and sits under the record raises the record above the mat quite a bit. When I then apply the clamp, it does not force the record back onto the mat. The record hovers above the mat about a 1/16 of an inch. Isn't the point of this thing to clamp the record flat on the mat? Or is there supposed to be a gap between the record and mat? Am I only supposed to use the felt washer on mats where the area by the spindle is recessed (my mat is flat)? When I discard the felt washer, the record lies completely flat on the mat, but from what I am reading, the washer is supposed to be used.

I am using the record clamp seen here:

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/accessories/record-clamp/

I am using it on my Technics SL-1200 MKII.

Thanks for the help.

 

You have to apply a LOT of downward pressure to get the record flat against the platter with the Michell when using the washer. I don't use the washer myself, and the clamp works very well without it.

 

What are the advantages/disadvantages of a clamp versus a simple weight?

They both would only help on one side of a dish-warped record... right?

 

I have the Gyro SE and had the same issue with the clamp. When you put the felt washer under the record, many records hovered just over the platter. The clamp would push the flattest of these to the platter. The rest had a bit of a gap. It seemed counterintuitive.

At this point, I am not using the washer. Perhaps PumaCat will chime in on the topic.

 

I was able to get the record flat by applying a good amount of pressure. But it is an amount of pressure that I don't feel comfortable with.

My understanding is that with the Michell clamp the felt washer lifts the record above the mat and the outer circumference of the clamp then forces the outside edge of a dish-warped record down onto the mat. Of course, I haven't been able to achieve this for the reasons mentioned above.

 

You do NOT need a lot of pressure with the Michell clamp.

With 180 or 200 gram records you are not going to use the washer, with lighter weight records the washer should be used.

The first key is to distribute a small amount of downward pressure around the perimeter of the clamp as you are tightening it down. Easiest way to do this is (if you're right handed) to use 2 fingers and the thumb from your left hand positioned in an approximate equilateral triangle around the outside perimeter of the clamp and apply a very slight downward pressure while at the same time tightening the knob with your right hand.

The second key is not to overtighten or overclamp. Once you feel tension while tightening, that's about all you need. Maybe an 1/8th of a turn, possibly not even that.

You'll find that with anything but records with very severe dishwarps that this will result in good flattening of the record and very good overall contact with the platter.

Michell should put instructions in with the clamp. It would be a big help. But used properly (took me a while to figure it out), it's very effective. Many people use way too much pressure and overclamp/overtighten.

 

I'll have to play around with it a bit more, but I am yet to get this to work without significant downward pressure. I tired every kind of record imaginable. Regular weight, 180g, severely warped, barely warped, perfectly flat, you name it. The clamp works beautifully without the washer. Is there any reason why it shouldn't be omitted?

 

My clamp (the one pictured in the OP) does not have threads and cannot be tightened. It simply sits on the record and is hardly heavy enough to change the overall alignment of the lp.

 

Well if you have the one pictured in the original post it can most certainly be tightened unless it's broken or defective in some way. It's a reflex clamp without threads and is quite effective if used as I've described.

I own two of them-the original in aluminum and the newer black delrin version-and I've been using them on my Gyro for about 27 years.

 

Omit the washer if you like. IMO the clamp is much more effective with it as opposed to without when it comes to regular weight records and coupling them to the platter and Michell feels that way as well as they include it with the clamp. They also include a washer (albeit one of different material) with the Orbe clamp, so the washer is clearly an integral part of the clamping system.

Once again, you need very little pressure, but you do need that pressure around the perimiter of the clamp as you are turning the knob to tighten down.

To give you an idea of how little pressure, I have an older Gyro with a plinth, so my subchassis sits about 2 mm above that plinth. When I apply the clamp, my subchassis does not even come close to bottoming out on the plinth. In other words it probably drops about 1 mm with the pressure I apply.

Very little pressure, very little in the way of tightening. It is counterintuitive but it is effective and it works.

 

I've had my Gyro for four days. And there is no place where they explained what you just did. Thanks! Now to go experiment a bit.

I may PM you with a couple more questions along the way.

 

The o.p. could contact the manufacturer and see what they say:

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/contacts/

My take is, the record clamp will not work well on all turntables, and there are records so badly warped, no record weight can fully flatten them.

 

No question about very badly warped records being impossible, and I said as much in my first post.

Your comment on other turntables, though, has some merit. I had looked initially at DaveN's system to see that he was using a Gyro but had not given much thought to others using other tables and see that that they are, in fact, the majority in this thread.

The Gyro's platter has a very slight recess around the spindle resulting in the washer sitting just a bit lower than it would on tables without that recess. The result may be that the washer on certain non-Michell tables will be raising the record so far off the platter that it cannot be compressed properly with the clamp to make proper contact with the platter.

So on tables like that a thinner, or perhaps no washer at all (likely the first) might actually be in order for the clamp to work as designed. The principles of minimal pressure and clamping would still apply though and I'm sure that Michell would confirm that if contacted.

 

A weight can cause stress to the turntable main bearing, but a clamp will not, since it grips the spindle and applies downward pressure against the platter, not the bearing. It makes a record "sandwich" so to speak.

 

I think that this is the problem. As I mentioned in my original post, my mat is flat, there is no recess near the spindle. As a result, the felt washer lifts the record a full 4mm above the mat, which seems too high for the clamp to overcome using light pressure. I think I have a recessed mat. I'll dig it out and play around with it a bit more.

 

A Michell or anyother recordclamp is not meant primarily to get rid of warpes!!
It's a nice side-effect though

But clamps (if used on the right TT) should make the sound more clear and realistic ;-)
And watch out for use on vilt mats > deadening of the sound occurs!!

And only use the vilt ring if your platter is recessed in the center. Good luck

 

I’m not sure about the 1200 series but I do own a couple of Technics 1350 tables and the spindles do not lock down and are easily removable so that the clamp in question is actually pulling the spindle up by the downward pressure especially when the felt washer is being used. I would buy a non-clamping weight to use on a Technics table.

 

If I remember correctly, the spindle on the 1200 mkII is bolted to the chassis, so I don't think the clamp is pulling it up. I bought this clamp because a lot of Technics users said that it worked really well.

I tried the clamp with my recessed mat and it now works as advertised. I think I'll look for a thinner washer to use the clamp with my flat mat.

 

Was wondering if anyone knows who has the best on-line price for the JA Michell Rega clamp? Also for any Canadian members, are there any Canadian "hi-fi" Web sites selling the product?

Aud-Guy on eBay sells them, but will not ship to Canada.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J-A-MICHELL-RECORD-CLAMP-Fits-most-turntables-/370594216667

 

A question for Michell clamp users: I understand the clamp holds onto the spindle with an aluminum collet in a similar manner as a drill chuck. Have you noticed any marring/scratches to the spindle caused by the clamp?

My spindle is mirror polished stainless steel and it would not take much to scratch it.

(Sorry for the double post, but I asked in a wrong thread.)

 

I just took a look at the spindle on my Technics using a bright light. It still seems very shiny with no readily visible marks. I've been using a Michell clamp on it for the past 10 years. The inside of the clamp that compresses on the spindle looks to be very smooth.

 

Fantastic! Thank you very much. Set my mind at ease. I've just ordered one for my Pro-Ject Xtension 9. It came with a heavy center weight, which works well mostly, but with some records is counterproductive as it causes the record to lift from the platter. I'm hoping the Michell will do a better job with those.

 

I had one years ago and noticed that it won't be very effective with short spindles and will be even worse when spinning thicker vinyl.

I believe Michell has a version for short spindles as well (IIRC).

 

You are right, they do. Intended for Regas and such. I believe the regular version needs at least 7-8mm of untapered spindle above the record. The Pro-Ject has about 11mm of untapered spindle above an average LP, so I think I'll be fine.

 

I think you'll like it. I've been really impressed at how it manages to tame some edge warps. When I bought it I knew it was good for "dished" records but I had no idea it could help with ripples that are more towards the outer edge.