Ray Charles - Singular Genius: The Complete ABC Singles'

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by apileocole, Sep 22, 2011.

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  1. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    This is not good news. It could mean we have a fold down. Does anyone have the single to check it against the new set. I may have one somewhere, but I can't compare because I dont have the new box.
     
    aoxomoxoa, Nov 16, 2011
    #101
    bonsaipark likes this.
  2. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    Location:
    Upper East Side, NYC
    ABC singles box set Sax solo matches the solo on Steve's Uh Huh...I think we found a fold down...
     
    DJ WILBUR, Nov 16, 2011
    #102
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  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles


    Not necessarily true, DJ.

    It's complicated but the stuff on ABC-Paramount 415 (released 7-62) was all remixed for the Greatest Hits. In other words, there could be a legit mono version with the wrong sax.

    Bell Sound always wanted more billing from the record companies that housed their production file there and one way to do that was to remix everything all the time, whether it needed it or not. So, instead of just compiling LP master reels in mono and stereo of the singles from 1959-61 they ignored them all and did remixes from stereo or three track sources to make NEW mono and stereo, 1962 style. Messed everything up because the actual master takes, mono and stereo were then considered by Bell Sound to be expendable and therefore were treated with less than kindness from August of 1962 on. Not an insurmountable problem but it requires the knowledge that this happened in order to actually find the right versions of each and every song.

    Bell Sound was the worst at keeping track and assigning master numbers to each song so only by listening carefully can anything be figured out.

    Bottom line is that the good take of UNCHAIN MY HEART has a clunker in the sax solo and a bit of another take was used to fix it. On different "creations" different bits of sax solos were used. So, even though the sax solo doesn't match, it still could be a mess up from 1962 which makes it an "historic" mess up and pretty legit in my book.

    In other words, all the songs on ABC-415 that were mixed especially for THAT album in the Summer of 1962 are the ones that were probably used for the new box. S'OK with me, those are nice mixes.

    Don't stress out about this is all I mean..
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 16, 2011
    #103
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  4. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Anyone else compared "Hit the Road, Jack" from this box to a known stereo version? I am interested in your conclusions . . .
     
    SBurke, Nov 16, 2011
    #104
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Those Modern Sounds albums are real mono, if the vinyl is on the ABC or ABC-Paramount label, yes.

    CARELESS LOVE was also edited for single release in 1962. So it is way shorter than the ABC-410 version. Check the new box, should be the short version on there if they did it right...

    I'm actually looking forward to hearing this set. I can say that other than a few singles I had when I was a kid, I've never heard many of these later songs other than maybe on YouTube. Hopefully the set is worth it, sound wise..

    That being said, I personally believe that the earlier Ray Charles hits from the ABC-Paramount years are best served by the fine stereo versions as mixed by Bill Putnam and Al Schmitt at United, Johnny Cue, Frank Abbey, Gene Thompson and Bob Arnold at Capitol, NYC and the wonderful engineers at Bell Sound who understood stereo and how it should sound. The reason to buy THIS set is not to hear the big hits in mono which in my opinion diminishes the sound impact, but to hear all those songs that have not been issued in any form in over 35 years.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 16, 2011
    #105
  6. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    Location:
    Upper East Side, NYC
    Careless love on the ABC box is 3:03 and 3:42 on Modern Sounds in Country, so it is an edit on the new box...

    and yes, so many cool b-sides and songs I'd never heard made this $45 purchase a no brainer for me...and I think it sounds great...YMMV
     
    DJ WILBUR, Nov 17, 2011
    #106
  7. johnnyv

    johnnyv Forum Resident

    Location:
    tampa, fl
    It's my copy of the Mono ABC/Paramount Greatest Hits LP that DJ Wilbur is referencing...the only thing written in the dead wax is ABC-415 A 1b & ABC-415 B 1b...also says Bell Sound written in the same "script" font as on my original ABC/Paramont 45 of Hit the Road Jack.

    I also have a 1970 vintage ABC "Oldies Treasure Chest" reissue 45 of "jack" that fades at the EXACT same place as the ABC/Paramount copy has the same matrix number (AMP 45 - 10434) and both of these match the Greatest Hits LP's fade point.

    Not sure if that is any kind of proof of anything, but it's more fodder for the discussion.

    One other thing to add: I just compared "Jack" in Stereo from the Gold Cover Double LP A Man & His Soul" and it fades to complete silence BEFORE both 45's & the Mono Greatest Hits versions....the little "Haaaaaa" wail at the end of the other versions is not there on the stereo.
     
    johnnyv, Nov 17, 2011
    #107
  8. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    Location:
    Upper East Side, NYC
    that little "haaaaaaa" is on the new box set...
     
    DJ WILBUR, Nov 17, 2011
    #108
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's on the DCC Uh-Huh as well...:)
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 17, 2011
    #109
  10. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    Speaking of Uh-huh...why is "Don't Change On Me" about 20 seconds shorter than the album version? (3:02 vs 3:22 or something like that)
     
    MikeP5877, Nov 17, 2011
    #110
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    There is only one tape of that song that Ray could find at that time. Just one. That's what he used for our Dunhills.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 17, 2011
    #111
  12. johnnyv

    johnnyv Forum Resident

    Location:
    tampa, fl
    Are you going by what's written on the CD or have you played it to check the actual run time? Because, interestingly, my mono white label promo 45 of Don't Change On Me lists the run time as 3:22 but the song actually fades to complete silence at 2:59. I'm wondering if that 3:22 is a typo, or if this is evidence of another lost tape. The Joel Whitburn Pop Singles Annual says the run time of the "stock" single is 3:22 also...but I only have the promo copy, maybe someone with a "stock" copy can compare the time on it.
    Isn't this fun???:D
     
    johnnyv, Nov 18, 2011
    #112
  13. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    This is fun, especially since this is one of my favorite Ray songs. :thumbsup:

    What I didn't realize until just now is that these are completely different versions! Ray's vocal on the Uh Huh CD is from a different take than what was used on the Rhino Complete C&W and Genius & Soul box sets.

    This is what I have:

    3:24 version - found on the Rhino Genius & Soul and Complete C&W box sets.


    The version on Uh Huh runs 3:01, is in stereo, and has mucho distortion. I was so focused on the timing difference that I didn't even notice that it's a completely different take (same backing track though). Incidentally, the packaging misprints the timing as 3:22.


    So now I wonder what was used for:

    The original "stock" 45 (1971)
    The original "Love, Country Style" album (1970)
    The download-only reissue of "Love, Country Style" on Concord (2009)
    The new singles set (2011)
     
    MikeP5877, Nov 18, 2011
    #113
  14. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    By the way, judging from the sample of "Don't Change On Me" on Amazon for "Singular Genius", they are using the take that was used for "Genius and Soul" and the C&W box set, though it's mono.
     
    MikeP5877, Nov 18, 2011
    #114
  15. peteham

    peteham Senior Member

    Location:
    Simcoe County
    Anyone know if there is a stereo mix of "in The Heat Of The Night' and where one might be able to find it?
     
    peteham, Nov 18, 2011
    #115
  16. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    The soundtrack version is stereo on the Genius & Soul box and the SH-mastered Uh-Huh.

    The version used for the single is a different recording. I'm not aware of any stereo mix for that one.
     
    MikeP5877, Nov 18, 2011
    #116
  17. doowop365

    doowop365 …and Spaghetti

    Location:
    Central WI
    Regarding "Don't Change On Me":

    My ABC/TRC stock single runs 3:01 (ish) and sounds like a different take than what is on the box set. Ray sings at about :20-:25, "make all the pain...stop" (with a slight pause between the words) on the 45, but on the box set Ray sings the words together: "make all the pain stop". The versions are similar/close, but they veer in slightly different directions around 2:15 into the song.

    Jon O.
     
    doowop365, Nov 18, 2011
    #117
  18. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    Yep, the "pain stop" phrasing on your single matches the one on Uh Huh. Is your single stereo or mono?

    Also, does anyone have the original "Love, Country Style" album on vinyl? I'm wondering if the 3:01(ish) version is on there or if it has the longer one that's showing up on the two Rhino boxes and now the recent Concord releases.
     
    MikeP5877, Nov 18, 2011
    #118
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The UH HUH version is the correct version. The HIT version.

    The others have to be remixes from the 8 track.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 18, 2011
    #119
  20. doowop365

    doowop365 …and Spaghetti

    Location:
    Central WI
    My 45 is mono. It lists the time as 3:22, which is incorrect, as noted.

    Jon O.
     
    doowop365, Nov 18, 2011
    #120
  21. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast OH
    Remixed, with an alternate vocal track. Didn't you once say Ray wanted to go back and re-record his vocals because he thought he could sing them better?
     
    MikeP5877, Nov 18, 2011
    #121
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Your mono single is a fold, by the way...
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 18, 2011
    #122
  23. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Has anyone seen this review on Amazon? Scroll down to the one star review:

    http://www.amazon.com/Singular-Geni...iewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

    Any comments on the unwelcome layer of unnecessary reverb that was added? I haven't seen that mentioned in this thread so maybe he's nuts or no one has noticed it.

    Just curious. I plan on trying for the black friday deal on this set.

    Eddie
     
    eddiel, Nov 21, 2011
    #123
  24. djej

    djej Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN USA
    djej, Nov 21, 2011
    #124
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, you have to ask, compared to what? Most of this stuff has not been on CD before so what are they comparing it to, the old 45s?

    I doubt they added reverb to everything but then bad crappy mastering choices like adding echo to old mixes has happened before (digital reissues of Jackson Browne, Peter/Paul & Mary, ZZ Top, etc.).

    Geez, nothing is ever easy. I'm getting my Ray Singular Genius set from Santa so I can't help you.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Nov 21, 2011
    #125
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