Re-evaluating the Genesis 2007-8 Remixes

So, the whole reason I am here on this forum is that I wondered what on earth was wrong with the "Blue box" SACDs when they first came out, and googled it.

Naturally, being a glutton for punishment I also bought the "Red" and "Green" boxes, played them, dismissed them and filed them away, going back to my original Charisma CDs from the 80's and feeling mighty superior about it.

Anyway, fed up with my Genesis-loving friends telling me how much better the remixes were for years, I finally decided last week that it was time to give them one more chance. (Stereo only at the moment...)

The results surprised me a little bit. I actually liked the Gabriel-era album remixes, and the 83-98 ones as well. They sound different, but in an interesting way, and I *might* be ready to accept them as a worthwhile addition to the catalogue...

I even (shock horror) enjoyed the early albums (Trespass-Foxtrot) and the "Genesis" (Shapes/Mama) and Invisible Touch albums more than when I recently re-listened to the original CDs.

I was getting ready to hand in my forum membership card, and then I put on the blue box.

Trick-Duke are an absolute abomination. If you want a perfect summary of what's wrong with them, check out "Snowbound" from "And then there were three...".

"La la, ok nice acoustic guitar and keys, I'm enjoying the clarity of the voice too, verse is quite good, here comes the chorus DUM DA-DA DUM HERE ARE THE DRUMS WE ARE THE DRUMS PLAYING VERY LOUDLY OVER THE CHORUS CRASHING INTO EVERYTHING LIKE A DRUNK UNCLE AT A WEDDING MAKING EVERYTHING DISTORTED RAH RAH RAAAAAAAAHHHHH"

How anyone signed off on these, I will never know. Such a shame!

 

Wind And Wuthering dvd and cd.
The only one of these remasters I've heard.
The dvd is unlistenable.
But, surprisingly, the cd is less bad, and there's some fun in hearing the remix.
But not too much fun.
Avoid, unless you're a curious cat like me.

 

This was one of the biggest wasted efforts in history of 5.1 remixing

Why oh why they decided to "modernize" the sound (aka over eq'd, reducing dynamics, etc) instead of keeping the original beauty and nuances of the music?

For worse, there're some fairly RIDICULOUS mistakes, like some alternate vocal takes on 'Dancing With The Moonlit Knight', 'Supper's Ready', some Hackett's guitar missing on 'Watcher of the Skies', etc

And one of the most unforgivable crimes was the use of NOISE REDUCTION on Jackson Tapes. It's not over no-noised, but is still there.

How I wish Tony Banks allow Steven Wilson to do the things right for God's sake.
But since he's a grumpy old man ...

 

I only listen to the surround versions and love them. Tresspass and Foxtrot sounded like crap to me in every vinyl and cd version I had heard - with so much hiss as to be hard to take in many parts - and in 5.1 I can finally fully appreciate the beautiful music contained therein. Tresspass is now my favorite in their catalog.

 

The main issue is not completely the mixes themselves, it was the godawful mastering. At first they seem detailed... Bright... Oh god why am I getting a headache... Turn it off.

The painful thing is, they showed me how much potential there is for better mixes, such as "Trespass" which in its original mixes was a murky, tubby sort of sound. The remix was the first time I heard anything resembling clarity. Imagine if Steven Wilson had been given the reins to do these mixes!!! It'll never happen, wouldn't surprise me if Tony Banks puts a stop to that ever going ahead...

 

I much prefer the original mixes, possibly because I'm an old sod who hates change.

But the Selling England mix is very... odd, is the word that springs to mind and I can't quite remember why.

 

I wouldn't call the remix of Wind And Wuthering "modern."
I'd just call it a preposterous mistake.

Modern stuff can be wonderful.

The idea of folks listening to the dvd remix on portable media players is hysterical. I'm awaiting videos of this.

 

I only got into Genesis a few years ago, absolutely hated them in the 1980's. There was a thread on this site about Watcher of the Skies, a song which I'd never heard, so I listened to it on youtube. It's one of the best songs I've ever heard! So now I've bought all of the Gabriel albums, with Nursery Crime to The Lamb all being the "Definitive Edition Remaster"'s. I've never looked closely, but I get the impression I'm supposed to hate these versions, but I'm not sure. But they're all I know so I love all four of these albums.

 

The Definitive Edition Remasters were, for many years, my main source for listening to Genesis and my only digital copies. I collected all the DER from "Trespass" to "A Trick of the Tail". It was when I came on these forums that I read about the other CDs, the original UK and US issues and became interested in seeing what they sounded like. The remixes are mastered poorly, with a shrill, fatiguing sound in many cases. The DER issues are said to be dull and no-noised, although I listened to them for years.
The original UK CDs are quite nice, the most 'natural' sounding I've heard. The original US "Trespass" is quite treble boosted, some people like this, but I can say that it doesn't match the original sound of the first pressings back in 1970. There's whole threads on here that discuss the pros and cons of those CDs, well worth a read! Glad you're enjoying the Gabriel years though, well worth digging into!

 

I think there was a bit of an overreaction to the DE versions - from some of us who understood the music - not just the sound - but the MUSIC - from the original pressings. The DE's are far from hideous. If they got you into the music, that's all that matters.

Now to really hear how great some of the music can sound, go the the Genesis on cd thread and get the versions many of us love.
You'll be blown away by Trick Of The Tail.

 

My stance on the red, green, and gray boxes has a tendency to change; are they okay as alternatives to the original mixes or are they abominations? It really depends on my mood. Currently, I only have the complete red and gray boxes, while I have only 2 or 3 each titles in the green and blue boxes after selling a few individual ones. After buying a free copy of the single CD Selling England remix with my eBay bucks, I found out that I don't hate it like many people here, though the EQ can be offensive at times. As for the albums from the blue box, all of them (except for Wind) are quite horrendous IMO. The Duke remix is, quite possibly, among the worst sounding discs I've ever heard.

 

Invisible Touch is fantastic in 5.1 where it was rather limp in stereo. It's a fun and engaging listen. I like the others too, I'm only really interested in the 5.1 though.

 

I arrived here on a steady diet of Definitive Edition re-masters. The DEs are all gone. I grew to love some of the original American Atlantic/Atco and European Virgin/Charisma CDs. I still buy the grey market Virgin/Charisma copies whemn they appear in the bins. Those CDs are my standard. I have a few of the remixed CD/DVD packages boought at cheap used CD prices and I listen to the lossy DTS 96/24 purely for entertainment purposes. They're not perfect but can be fun.

Enjoy what you will how you will.

 

One thing that I can say about the remixes is that many (if not all) of them have the midrange suckered out (at least for the stereo mixes). Invisible Touch seems to suffer the most from this issue.

 

We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations also now fall into the "abomination" camp for me. There was NOTHING wrong with the original mixes/masters.

 

The only gripe I have with the original CAS is that every track has tons of clipping. Even though the remix fixes that, the smiley EQ and compression aren't really needed.

 

I got my ATCO CD's (401-2) "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" yesterday. The 2007 remaster is now archived in the recycle bin, but I kept the booklet.

 

I think, the green and the red box are quite acceptable. But I still have a hard time listening to anything in the blue box (maybe except Abacab, which doesn't s*ck so bad).

 

i bought them just for the xtras, some essential.....i havent even attempted to listen to hardly any of them, but one day i did try the invisible touch, and it made me mad....you cant mess with perfection

 

While Banks (and Gabriel) had recently accepted awards at this year's Prog Festival, I do hope that Banks has at least acknowledged the fact that Wilson has been generating some acclaim for the remixes not to mention the 5.1 accolades he's since undertaken. Come on, Tony - think of the money that can be made here. Think of the flat transfers of the original mixes that listeners will also have access to if they don't get into the remixes. And how nice it would be to have the bonus tracks included with the appropriate album(s).

And I'd have Calling All Stations included as there were b-sides that did not make the 83-98 boxset such as Nowhere Else to Turn, which is still officially unreleased to this day, and the two brilliant instrumentals 7/8 and Phret.

I too started on the DE's and up until now, had no idea they disappointed many longtime fans - so I've been doing a little exploring of my own after realising the remixes were badly done. Tony, you MUST seek out Wilson!

 

I wouldn't have minded the remixes so much if everything wasn't so LOUD and compressed. That's really the big issue here. That and the fact that they replaced the original mixes wholesale.

 

I have all the box sets. I keep them for the video content. I haven't listened to any of the remixes more than twice, and I never will again.

 

All I know is that whenever I attempt to play one of these I find myself reaching for the nob again and again to turn them down. Just looking in the general direction of the cubes on the shelf makes my head hurt in anticipation. They won't stop screaming at me, even when they aren't playing. "LOOK AT ME! OVER HERE! LOUD NOISES!"

 

Still crap!

 

I had them but I sold them off and used to money to buy the earlier masterings. I love the bonus footage, and documentaries on the DVDs. Kinda wish I still had them just for that.