Re-recording old reel to reel tapes.

Have posted here before. I am having my 2 Teak Decks Restored. 2300 SD and X-7R . I must be frank but I want to re-record all of my older mono tapes. The first years that I began recording was in 1963. That was on a Lafayette mono stick controlled recorder. In order to record more accurately I used alligator clips. This is vintage NYC AM radio. Lots of DJ talking before, during and after songs are played. These tapes still work but are very old and have splicing issues. Have done some research and the 3 blank reel to reel offering are from ATR, RTM and Capture. Obviously these old tapes do not fit the bill for audiophile high quality recording. Any suggestions on which brand to use for these early recordings? I do not want to spend too much but given that both decks will be restored I want to use tape that will not injure the decks (I plan to use the X-7R for playback and the 2300SD to re-record (unless there is a suggestion to reverse this method. I also am dubious in purchasing lots on Ebay for tape given the unknowns involved. BTW my first stereo recording were on a 1967 Sony TC 260. Most of my collection up until 1976 were recorded on that.

 

Don't kill me for suggesting this but re-recording would involve a loss of SQ anyway so why not spare yourself all the uncertainty and simply digitize the tapes with the highest ADC you can afford?

 

Thank you for your reply. I really want to maintain analog integrity and historical reality by re-recording them

 

At the very least consider getting a decent digital recorder and doing a high res copy at the same time, I think you might be somewhat surprised by how transparent high res digital can be, plus it gives you a safety copy.

I'm trying to remember what tape my X-7 liked, weren't they set up for either Maxell or TDK? I may be wrong, but think it was TDK, having said that I used both on mine along with a ton of Agfa and a few other things and didn't notice any issues so if I was you I'd buy whatever the currently manufactured tape is and use that rather than taking a chance on tape of unknown age and provenance on eBay.

 

Never used the X-7R. Am really interested in its capabilities. I am considering recording on my PC simultaneously with the analog copy if that is possible and transfering to a flash drive
Thanks

 

have done a lots of tape transfer and some re-recording to R2R and that is what I was going to say. Not sure what speed the tapes are at but obviously re-record to the fastest speed.

 

Being AM radio recordings, I wouldn't see the point in buying high end priced studio tape.
We're talking Lo-Fi to begin with.
What speed were these recorded at 3/3/4 or 7.5 ips?
Also how many tapes do you want to duplicate?
I personally love the RTM LPR35 3600ft tape.
It's value for money too.
It may be different if you were using it for multitrack recording where you are stop and starting
and rewinding and forwarding constantly on the tape......

 

Your X-7 was factory biased for Maxell UD or Maxell UD-XL. Also TDK LX was a good tape which was bias compatible with Maxell UD-XL.

 

The speed at which the original tapes were recorded, plus the quality of the original tapes is going to have an affect on anything you do. ALL tapes have tape hiss and the cheaper they are the more hiss you are going to have. Say, if you have recorded one tape to another, you have just doubled your hiss. Two different quality of tapes, you just widened the tape hiss frequency. You are better off recording the original tapes to a digital source, then use a hiss removal program and finally record it to a new tape. When I was in radio decades ago we discovered that by even recording a record to tape at 7 1/2 or 15 ips, something magical happened and the tapes sounded better than the original records.

 

Ahhh, that's the magic 'juice', the sprinkling of Tape 'fairy dust' that we users love about the bi-products of the product.
Both 7.5 and 15 ips have their audio delights and both have their place.

 

Recorded at 3 1/2 ips. Cared more about quantity. Question I would love to buy 3600 ft. Problem is in the early days of recording I could buy 3600 on 7 inch reels. Do not see any manufacturer doing that on 7 but on 10 1/2. To save money is there a way to transfer from a 10 inch reel to a 7 inch reel on the decks I have? They only take 7 inch. Thanks

 

I see what you mean.
Personally, I'd get creative.
I'd get the 'pancake' version of the 3600 ft and attach it someway to something like a 'lazy susan' table/mechanism.
Run the tape through the guides of the machine and 'Play' or very! slow wind the tape onto the 7 inch reels.
Of course it's a delicate process and you have to have some patience.
The pancake tape is pretty securely packed, but you don't want to upset it just the same.
You could just get the reels with the 10.5 plastic spool, it does come in both, it's just a few bucks more that's all.
Just an idea...

 

Just like in cassette tapes, there is a variation in the thickness of the tape. The 10 1/2 " reels with 3600' used a thicker tape and you wouldn't be able to wind it on a 7" reel. The standard 7" reel had 1800' of tape on it and filled the reel. The 10 1/2" , 3600' reels used at least the same thickness of tape. There are even thicker tapes, which were used more for commercial usage. I believe that the 7" reels with 1200' of tape use an even thicker tape.

 

Do you have 10 1/2 inch reels that you recorded? There are ways to jerry-rig a Rube Goldberg contraption on to wind 10 inch reels on a 7 inch deck, and a few deck mfrs made such things, and there's still a way today.
But really if you have 10 1/2 inch reels to work with, get a deck that supports 10 1/2 inch.

 

No only 7" reels.

 

Then you're OK.
I think I see now that you wanted to transfer a new 10 1/2 3600 ft to a 7 inch and have that 7 inch still be a 3600. Nope, can't be done. A 10 1/2 3600 can wind onto two 7" with 1800 feet on each. Wind one, cut, wind the next. BTDT and it is not worth it. (Unless you find a cache of used 10 1/2s, which is why I did it.)

 

I've heard this effect with a few machines that I've recorded with, but by no means with all of the machines which I have tried. Most make the sound worse, or at least make it no better. But a few can indeed have a magical and mesmerizing effect on the sound.

 

Thanks to all. How do you jury rig a 7 inch deck to transfer a 10 inch reel to a 7 inch?

 

A 7" reel with 1200' (or a 10-1/2" with 2400') would be 1.5mil. A 7" reel with 1800' (or a 10-1/2" with 3600') would be 1 mil. To my knowledge, there is no thicker tape in common usage than 1.5mil, although there were specialized tapes like Tenzar (commonly used in language lab applications) that may have been closer to 2mil. But the overwhelming majority of consumer tapes were either 1.5 or 1 mil thickness.

There were thinner tapes that allowed 2400' on a 7" reel, but they involved both a thinner tape coating and a thinner Mylar base...and were dreadful.

 

If you have the NAB hubs, you could do it as simply as mounting a screwdriver somehow, with the shank-blade tilted up somewhat so the reel won't fall off, as the feed spindle to hold the 10 1/2", and carefully fast wind the tape while keeping some drag on the 10 1/2", such as with your hand in a cloth glove. When the 7" reel is full, put heavier drag on the 10 1/2", grabbing on the edge of that reel, and carefully hit stop and quickly slow that 10 1/2" down to a stop so it doesn't unspool all over the floor. You may have to do this in spurts if the glove gets too hot. But it can be done if there aren't many to do. Some plastic 10 1/2" reels have a normal spindle hole just like a 7" reel.

Or if your 7" deck is horizontal, mounting a screwdriver pointing straight up. This could be easier.

A few manufacturers made assemblies which attached like wings to the tape deck, which coupled externally to the 7" spindles with belts or circular springs used like belts. They were unwieldy and didn't last long before breaking, but allowed a few companies to sell the thing as an accessory and claim their machine could do 10 1/2".

 

But! If he hasn't got the NAB hubs?
Those things are expensive to buy.

 

Ingenuity. Make some kind of hub that will fit the 10 1/2" reel well enough. Whittle a bar of ivory soap or something. It'll just need a plain hole drilled through it to fit on the screwdriver (edit line the hole with aluminum foil so it doesn't get progressively looser and with soap shavings).
Or buy a set of used hubs on the auction site, use them, then sell them and get your money back.
There's always a way.

 

I totally agree. You will be very surprised how good digital can sound and careful hands and some good software will improve the original. You will need a good ADC, no computer onboard audio will be as good as a couple hundred or more on a audio device. A couple hundred more on some decent software and you are set. You will find more uses for the investment.

Here is a good thread you can find more info on software and noise reduction. Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

 

Over 20 replies and not one addressing the question of which commercially available tape brand to use?

I’ve had excellent results with RTM LPR35 on my B77.

Make sure you keep an eye on your old tapes: you don’t want them shedding stuff all over your newly refurbished decks...

 

Ummmmmmmmmm psk psk.....
Check out post #7.