Record Cleaning.. revisited (just got the Disc Doctor brushes) - LONG

Hi everyone

I've actually had a little exchange on this in another thread already but thought it more proper to start a dedicated thread.

Finally got my set of Disc Doctor brushes (no fluid.. don't ask ). I did a 'test run' yesterday on a beat up LP of Rubber Soul with some distilled water and one drop of dish detergent, scrubbing as best as I could on an old turntable.

I then let the LP air dry and there was quite a bit more shine to the grooves than there was before, so the brushes must've dug something out. The LP plays considerably quieter now, pops are still there (those won't go) but unlike before crackle is barely noticeable.

Today I planned on cleaning a couple more junkers and a couple better ones but got interrupted and could only get my hands on a scuffed copy of Revolver and a groove-worn 'Carnaby Street' LP (Kinks, Dave Davies, .. ).

I did things a bit more conscientiously today, trying to 'standardize' the procedure. I put one more drop of detergent in the cleaning water as well. I gave the LPs a quick rinse under the tap before starting and then did the scrubbing alternating between full revolutions and back and forth motion.

I might have applied a bit more pressure too. I then took the LPs to the tap again to rinse off a bit of the detergent and used a clean wet paper towel on the LPs to absorb the excess water.

At this point I used the 'rinse' brush. I did more or less the same I'd done with the 'soap' brush.

Then I patted the LPs a bit on a couple clean paper towels and let them air dry.

Again the grooves looked shinier than before cleaning and this time the improvement was also noticeable to the ears. I played Taxman and rolled the balance all the way to the 'vocals only' side and there was very little noise.

This LP already plays quite a bit better than it looks, I can only imagine what the brushes will do on discs in better shape. I haven't tackled the 'problem cases' yet (LPs that look clean but leave crud on the stylus every time) either.

I'd appreciate any comments, suggestions, anything.

Cheers,

Damián

 

(bump?)

 

Sckott's "sink" method:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=195214&highlight=sink#post195214

I've used it with great success.

 

I use a similar method. But I also use a brush and my own fluid. I DO rinse under hi force tap water, and the water actually blasts the dirt out of the grooves after I've loosened it with the brush. Then I rinse with distilled water.
It takes time to do a whole Lp the right way, but this WILL deep clean your records. After its done once, its a long time before ytou have to do it again.

I usually clean an LP, then play it once, rinse again, then record it to DAT.


I really cant see spending 400$ or so on a VPI or something, with all the records at flea markets and garage sales for .50, think of the tons of music you could own instead!!!

 

This probably sounds crazy but lacking some distilled water when I got my DD stuff, this is what I did:

Took an empty but clean bottled water jug, filled it with filtered water from my fridge dispenser, then ran it through my Bunn drip coffee maker (boiling water helps to purify), let it cool then put it into the jug.

YMMV - but so far so good.

I'm on the sidelines till I can swing the $299 Adobe/Cool Edit software. I had the CE 2000 trial but figured I'd wait to get new version. Wrong! The $99 CE 2000 is no more, only the $299 pro version. ##$@!%^&%$##

 

john T...send me a PM.

 

Here's a question: While all this scrubbing with water sounds like it truly cleans records, how on earth do you avoid getting the labels wet?

 

Damian,

It sounds like you have your cleaning system worked out pretty well. I have a couple of suggestions you might try: First, some detergents may contain chemicals which remove the plasticisers from the vinyl, so you might want to look into using Kodak Photo-flo solution (just a drop in the sink of water). Photo-flo is a wetting agent which makes water do its thing better, and it leaves no residue (and it is much less expensive than record cleaning solutions which I suspect may be the same thing). You can find it at better photo stores that cater to photography hobbyists. Second, avoid rubbing back and forth, go in the direction of the grooves only. That said, vinyl is pretty durable: before we knew better some of us cleaned our records with Tide detergent (I don't recommend this) and the records still sound okay.

Keep us posted about your successes (and failures, if any). Good luck.

quadjoe

 

I will, Joe. Thanks for the encouragement, it's good to know I might be on the right track or at least not damaging my LPs.

This Photo-flo thing you mention, you use it instead of detergent and that alone does the cleaning?

Mike, do you have a 'recipe' for that?

Thanks to all of you who replied, regards

Damián

 

Damian:

2 parts Distilled Water
1 Part 99% Isopropal Alcohol
1 shot glass of Lysol Direct
a few drops of Photoflow

This stuff works like a charm. Chemically,, its VERY similar to the Disc Doctor fluid.

 

There's a great device for that.

The Groovmaster Label Saver by William Sargent at [email protected]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562058717

Regards,
Geoff

 

Or, you can do what I do...i scotch tape a baggie over the label. Works just as well.

 

Good idea. I have a few grungy records that could use a good scrubbing. That other contraption looks a bit too expensive (like most audiophile accessories).

 

Thanks. I'll have to check out what's on that Lysol stuff you mention (no such brand name here) but I'll look into it.

I had my first 'bummer' experience today.. I'd started at one drop detergent, then the next day two drops, so far so good. Today I went to three and I might have overdone it because the LPs I cleaned look a bit clouded, for lack of a better word..

I also got a bit of crud on the stylus, probably due to the same reason.

I suppose I can always clean them again .

BTW, I believe I've read deep-cleaned LPs start sounding [even] better after a few plays, the reason why escapes me now.

Is there any truth to that at all? Thanks

 

Yes, Damain, thats VERY true. What happens is that a good cleaning removes a lot of crud from the grooves, and some of that crud goes from deep in the groove to higher up. The needle then helps to scrape it out, and another cleaning after playing the record removes it completely.

If Im taping an Lp, I will usually clean the Lp, play it once, the RINSE again, then tape it. It seems to make a better transfer with less noise.

 

Mold has a very interesting "invisible" effect. Some grime in Lps gets "worse" with just a simple cleaning because that crap gets unshifted, and the problems more audiable.

Mikey's right, if they're REALLY stubborn, clean, play and clean once more.

 

And significantly less expensive!!!

I use the Photo-flo by itself unless the records are excessively dirty, after all water is the universal solvent, the Photo-flo breaks the surface tension of the water allowing it to work better (basically detergents do the same thing, but many have perfumes and dyes which may leave a residue on the record and add nothing to the cleaning effect). BTW: NEVER use soap of any kind as it will leave a sticky film on your records which will be very difficult to remove. I know this seems obvious, but you would be surprised how many people think that detergent = soap; they are chemically very very different.

 

I've recently gotten the DD cleaning system and can't wait to give it a go, seems like a great product form all I've read, especially for the price. Need to replace my broken cartridge first! I do have a couple concerns about the cleaning fluid recommended by Mikey:

2 parts Distilled Water
1 Part 99% Isopropal Alcohol
1 shot glass of Lysol Direct
a few drops of Photoflow
(I haven't figured out how to quote yet!)

The DD product literature explicitly says to avoid cleaners with isopropanol (of which this recipe contains a ~33% it appears) due to potential leaching of plasiticizers. Also, Dr. Goldman himself suggests including "a very low concentration of n-propanol" according to the following web page:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/0605/kinch.6n5.html

Unfortunately "a very low concentration" is rather vague. But my sense is that distilled water with a dash of detergent and n-propanol might be an effective solution. When I get myself up and going with all this I'll test it out and post my results. Lucky me, I work in a bio lab and have all the chemicals and detergents I need to play around with. I'm also considering getting a KAB EV-1 record cleaner to use in conjunction with my home vacuum in combo with the DD pads and solution, but I'm beginning to think it's probably not necessary nor worth it. Any thoughts?

 

IMO the machine would still be a good idea for drying the records after cleaning with the DD system. The EV-1 is a nifty little unit, and I have been quite happy with what it does. I have used filtered water after I ran out of the supplied cleaning solution, and the results are still good.

 

Right you are, lucky you indeed.

 

I have never, and no one I know has ever, had ANY problems using alcohol on records. The trick is, no matter WHAT cleaning fluid you use, get it on and OFF the record ASAP.

The "sink" method described by Sckott is very effective. If you can get a hose to attach to your faucet that increases the water pressure, you can "water blast" your records clean. This really does work, and it makes total sense when you think about it.

MUCH cheaper than a 400$ machine, which in my opinon doesnt do as good a job as high water pressure.

 

Not Duane, the Disc Doctor ( at www.discdoc.com ) fluid. His recommended fluid is carefully formulated to not interact with any of the vinyl plasticizers. Any alcohol in the mix will also cause the brush pads to unstick sooner rather than later (they can be replaced). Remember there is another brand of disk doctor cleaning machine and fluid.

Duane does recommend some alcohol if you have plasticized polythene 'leakage' (like from early Decca inner bags) on your disks and want to remove it (I have marked disks, but none of it seems to have got into the grooves - they still play great)

Duane's brushes are amazing, they really get to the grooves, but it's not the brushes that sweep - they agitate the fluid down there. It's the rinsing that removes it, and the dirt now in suspension. It takes some practice to feel the right amount of liquid to use. The rinse brush is as essential as the cleaner. I have found a large ACE spray bottle to be the best rinse tool. Good for cleaning the pads, too.

I used to clean this way using detergent and tap water, and paint pads.. but Duane's brushes take it to another level. Using only distilled water for everything (fluid, rinsing, cleaning the brushes) is very important if you want your disks to come out silent. It does reduce the 'stylus grunge' on first clean, too.

Mike, happy DD user.