Rega turntable advice

Hello Guys,

For the past 10 years, I have been using vintage turntables (a modified lenco l75 and a sony 2250 direct drive). Recently, a friend offered me a pre owned Rega P3-24 (including an elys cart) with the Rega power supply for roughly around $560. It's in all stock but very good condition. The prospect of owning a more "modern" table and a belt drive at that got me thinking. I read on this particular Rega model and discovered the various upgrades that could be done with it. Exciting possibilities indeed. My question now is, how would the P3-24 compare to the current Planar 3 model? I can get the current Planar 3 for roughly $800+ brand new. This would however be for the turntable only and no PSU. I understand that the tonearm of the current Planar 3 is certainly better. But the idea of getting a deck + PSU at $560 seems to be a good deal as well. What do you guys think?

As a second question, would it be ideal to fit in a denon dl 103 on Rega turntables?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

If you want to use a Denon DL103, stick with the Lenco and focus on finding a suitable arm. The Rega arm is not a good match for the Denon.

I should add: I think the deal you have on offer for the P3-24 is fair. If I were in your shoes and wanted to go with a Rega P3, I would go for the older and cheaper model with the speed control, then use the money saved on a Groovetracer subplatter and towards a nicer cartridge (check out that slightly used Dynavector cartridge in the classifieds right now -- great match for the Rega arm).

 

I'm sort of keeping an eye out for a P3-24, with a plan to put an Exact cartridge on it. It's a nice setup even with the Elys. I would agree with the advice on a subplatter upgrade. After that, I'd leave the P3-24 as is.

 

I have seen some serious mods done to the GL75. I understand that a Linn
Ittok will drop straight in.
Just good for thought....
Of all the cartridges at the time
(1993) in Hi-Fi Choice only 3?had an excellent rating,
The cheapest to get such a rating was the Denon DL304.
So the 103 would be a good bet.

 

The P3 is light years ahead of the older Rega. It will sound better even without the power supply. It has a much better arm, lighter plinth, better main bearing, better bracing and an improved motor drive circuitry. Also has a better platter and a much improved stock subplatter. It also will accept the upcoming power supply that will be speed adjustable. The new arm improvements include a new style tube, bearings, and much better wiring. Adding a groovetracer to the older deck will not overcome all the advances the new P3 has.

As far as the Denon goes, I cant help you there. I can tell you that Dynavectors work very well with a 2mm spacer. I am using a Dyna 202xH on mine and love it.

 

I had an opportunity to buy a similar Rega that was loaded with upgrades and had a bunch of extra stuff (carts, two different platters and subplatters) with it for a little less than what you are looking at. I passed because it just wasn't for me.

If I had a Lenco L75, I'd get it tuned up, replinthed, and buy the best arm you could afford for it. Then I'd forget about Rega.

 

I'm a Rega fan, but I must admit I am a little skeptical about the advances of the new P3. As I recall, the RP3 was touted as a major advance in many ways, and I was skeptical then, too. I won't nitpick on every supposed improvement - It's just that it all seems vague to me. A better platter, for example. Really? It's a slab of glass.
That's what it has always been.

 

I'm waiting for the P3.1 with the TTPSU Mark IV, RB333 and 3-D glass platter. Should slay the P3.

 

It's machined more accurately. Watch the Fremer factory videos, Rega explains it better than I can. Last couple years, Rega has upgraded their machining accuracy, and they have also learned quite a bit making that 40k turntable. Most of the improvements are simply trickle downs from that unit. The new P6 looks like it is going to be quite a jump from the RP6 also.

 

"Light years" is an extreme exaggeration. It's still the same basic design. There are improvements or at least changes to bearings and bracing and arm tube and motor and subplatter, etc., all of which may be sonic upgrades, but the basic design -- and the basic problem of all that ringy, free-to-resonate energy in that soundboard of a plinth -- largely remain it would seem based on the recent Stereophile review of the new P3 in which a stethoscope revealed how loud the motor breakthrough and reflected musical energy bouncing around the plinth is. It also still runs fast. I wouldn't call that a "light years" level improvement or difference. More like refinements around the edges.

 

Does the power supply step down the voltage to the motor after the platter is up to speed? To me, a motor controller that does that for an AC synchronous motor can be a huge improvement in a turntable, dramatically lowering the noise floor to reveal low level detail and improving tracking, especially in a Rega where everything -- motor, platter bearing and tonearm -- are all tightly coupled to a resonating plinth. Better yet, a power supply that drives the motor rotor with two separate lines and allows the phase to be trimmed between the two, but I don't think any of the Rega power supplies do that.

I might go with the old one with the power supply if its a power supply that reduces torque and motor noise breakthrough, myself. But if you're really interested in the difference between your Lenco and a modern belt drive table, you should at least know that the Rega follows a particular design philosophy and has a particular sound that isn't necessarily characteristic of other modern belt drive tables.

 

Yeah i have to agree i am also in the skeptical department with regard to the new P3. I would say look for an already upgraded P3 - 24, buying the upgrade parts separately is not cost effective. Anything less than P3 - 24 with TTPSU and subplatter upgrade wont be an upgrade for you.

Ive never heard a 2016 P3 but once i get my P5 up and running with all its upgrades in place i will be very keen to do a shootout with a 2016 P3.

 

Going to get my P3 up and running this week. I expect to love the sound, as I did my old P5. I'm not really expecting a light years level of difference - frankly, if it sounds exactly like the P5 did I'll be happy. I plan to do a PSU upgrade in the future. It may be worth looking at after market options, as Chervokas says, to ensure that there is meaningful improvement. Although I'm sure the new (upcoming) Rega TT-PSU will be a nice upgrade over the current TT-PSU (which itself sounds like an upgrade over no TT-PSU at all).

I really dig Rega tables but recognize they are not perfect. I want to use the P3 platform and some judicious upgrades over time to hopefully bring the table up to another level of performance.

 

As you probably know from the nomenclature, the Rega uses a 24VAC motor. The TT-PSU is a simple and fairly old-school design, an oscillator for 33 and one for 45, both divided down to the 50/60 Hz for 33.3RPM and 67.5/81 for 45RPM, then filtered to sine waves before routing to the output driver stage (simple bridge circuit with 2 opamps, each driving a push-pull transistor pair). Each of the frequency oscillator outputs has a voltage adjustment pot after the filter to allow fine tuning to the motor for lowest vibration (I think, but that would only be done at factory on the units that are delivered with TT-PSU). It also provides a control line to the motor board on the turntable for switching the phase capacitor between the 33 and 45 RPM values (something that the general purpose controllers on the market can't do). So it isn't as good as having separate phase outputs to drive the motor, but at least is better than what you would get with other general purpose controllers (ie Pro-Ject, Music Hall, Phoenix) that are either optimized for 33.3 or 45 RPM, but not both. No pitch adjustment, which would significantly complicate the design, and I haven't seen any mention that the 2017 version will have it, except around here, but if so it is probably a completely new design with digital synthesis, similar to the other modern controllers on the market.

 

That sounds worth having, especially if there are trim pots to fine tune for lowest vibration that an end user buying as an aftermarket add on can get to.

 

Either way that is a bargain.

 

I would go with the new Planar 3; no contest. Better tonearm, better bearings (main and tonearm) and subplatter.
It would matter less whether or not you have a TT PSU.
Also, the DL103s are not good matches to a Rega arm (as it's previously been stated).

 

I've tried my P3 with my RP6s TT PSU 2 and found very little audible difference. This comparison was done via a high resolution system, not an affordable Integrated that the combo is most likely to end up in.

 

Wow thanks for all your replies guys! I'm actually very happy with my Lenco. It's been replinthed and fitted with a modern Jelco tonearm. It's a great overall player. I'm not really in the market for a new deck, it's just that The Rega was offered to me and the affordable price/different flavor (being a belt drive) is what piqued my interest. I have a Denon DL 103 on the way and several people here stated that it's not an ideal match with rega tonearms. That alone may be a reason for me to pass on the P3-24. In any case, I'll see if I can take the Rega home for a couple of days just to see if I'd like it or not. Thanks again for all your helpful insights!

 

Personally I would rather have a Jelco tonearm with detachable headshell any day of the week over any Rega tonearm.

 

I didn't want to discourage you from checking out a Rega deck; tastes do differ, and the fact is you can get a very enjoyable experience with a Rega in your system. However; I would personally lean towards maximizing the Lenco you already have. The Jelco should be a good match for the DL103, and I would expect the Lenco to offer far greater speed accuracy AND consistency over any Rega regardless of which model and which speed controller is attached. I recently went from a Rega P3 (2000) to a restored Garrard 401 (an idler model like your Lenco) and I have zero regrets. That Rega P3 was by far the longest-lasting piece of gear in my system. It easily handled multiple upgrades of every other aspect of my system over the years, and by the end of my time with it, I was using a cartridge that cost more than the table/arm, and it sounded fabulous. I have nothing but respect for Rega turntables based on my own experience. But there is better, and I have found it. It pays to keep an open mind.

 

Visited the Rega Hootenanny at Whetstone Audio here in Austin today. The demo system was a P3 w/ Exact, Elex-R and Harbeth 7ES-3 speakers. Cables were Auditorium 23. I have the same speakers and an RP-8 and Aria phono preamp. I can say that the P3 performed very impressively. While the detail retrieval is not quite that of an RP-8 with Dynavector 20x2L (my rig), the imaging and musicality was very good indeed, and I could say I was completely satisfied with the listening session which covered multiple genres - rock, funk, reggae and jazz. No complaints.

Thanks to this session I am considering a Rega integrated amp as a second flavor to compliment my Leben which is slightly underpowered and lacks bass control at higher volumes on rock and more complex musical passages. If possible, the OP should try to demo a system like the above in person as it will illuminate in ways that reviews/opinions/words in a forum cannot.

 

Which Leben integrated are you running in your system? I heard the CS600 paired with the Devore O/96 speakers, and found it impressive.

 

CS300XS, 15w purchased in 2010. There are so many great qualities about this amp that I will keep it especially for most jazz, all music at moderate to lower volumes and for headphone usage.

I'm currently listening to Bill Evans Trio Waltz For Debbie from the current AP Bill Evans Complete Riverside Sessions 22LP box set and the sound, imaging, staging and detail are all sublime. But this music breathes and the amp keeps up.

 

I would be looking at more sensitive speakers rather than a different amp. But I have the same speakers as you, and I can understand the reluctance at changing them out. They are pretty special.