Ripping HDCD audio

There are only Windows converters for HDCD, so what one must do is to run VirtualBox, Parallels, etc. with a Windows installation in these or use BootCamp and load a Windows installation and use HDCD.exe on that. I would use VirtualBox or Parallels over BootCamp. It is best that you use a newer Mac as these have the Intel processors before loading Windows on a Mac either way.

 

I need to experiment with the hdcd.exe method as well. Mostly just to satisfy my inner geek and get familiar with it since it is the solution that started it all.

I started with dBpoweramp for HDCD processing and now have switched to CUETools.

 

Why the switch?

 

Okay, so now I have found two ways to successfully save the HDCD wavs at 24 (20 with 4 bits padded) bit (hdcd.exe and CueTools). Thank you guys for that.

Now I need to figure out why Foobar doesn't "see" the HDCD. I extracted a file with EAC and played it in Foobar. It said 16/44. I played the same file extracted from CueTools and it said 24/44. Further, the CueTools file was 6 db softer than the EAC file, so I am certain one was decoded and the other was not.

 

The hdcd.exe decoded material is also -6dB compared to encoded one (unless HDCD Peak Extend or Gain features were utilized at encoding stage, then the level difference between encoded & decoded files would be less)...

 

If you did a normal rip with EAC and are playing the resultant files with foobar2000, it will report that the file is 16/44.1...because it is. It's still a 16/44.1 file even if it has HDCD encoding. Otherwise it wouldn't play in a regular CD player. The only indicator that foobar2000 is decoding HDCD is in the status bar at the bottom.

Furthermore, the current HDCD plugin does not decode with a 6db pad (thus lowering the volume) like the old one did. If the 16 bit file were quieter, that would mean you were running an old version of foobar2000 with the old plugin.

Go into File -- Preferences and make sure you have foo_hdcd installed under your Components listing.

 

CUETools includes a line in its log file that tells me which HDCD features were detected. dBpoweramp does not.

The info from CUETools looks like this:
HDCD: peak extend: yes, transient filter: none, gain: -4.0dB..0.0dB

The peak extend is the most important feature. If a disc doesn't have peak extend then I don't bother decoding it. The gain feature would be secondary. It'll show in some faint decay type sounds being more easily heard. The transient filter doesn't come into play for software decoding (you need a real HDCD hardware player or DAC to get the benefit of that feature).

The Foobar plug-in can also tell you which HDCD features were detected. I believe the hdcd.exe program will tell you as well.

I copy the HDCD line from the CUETools log into a custom tag field when I process the rip. That way I can look in my tags to see which HDCD features are in the file.

 

I highly recommend either CUETools or hdcd.exe

 

I wonder if that is in fact true. For example, Oppo's will output a "decoded" 24/44.1 signal if "HDCD On" is selected in the set-up menu, which implies to me that it is being "software" (or in this case firmware) decoded by hdcd.exe (although legally licensed from Microsoft). I have also read that Pacific Microsonics hasn't made any new HDCD chips since selling the technology to Microsoft, and they were the sole manufacturer. I know Microsoft doesn't make them, just licenses the technology. So my guess is that either

1) few if any existing players actually decode the transient filter data, or

2) the transient filter data IS decoded by the software decoders. Foobar claims to do it.

 

Thanks everyone. Using HDCD.exe and the script in Brad's attachment, I just decoded Miles Davis's Jack Johnson. I know how much this board likes waveforms, so here's the first track. Un-decoded (top) and decoded (bottom).


Thinks: I probably should have used smaller files to test this with

 

I think you mis-read me. The 24 bit file was -6, not the 16 bit file.

I have Foobar 2000 1.1.1 foo_hdcd is shown in my components listing and the status bar says CDDA 1411kbps (or PCM 1411k from the ripped wave file).

I wish I could figure it out. I have several HDCDs and listen at my computer a lot.

 

I think if you want to play CDs (rather than decode the ripped files) Windows Media Player will decode HDCD for you.

Go to Tools - Options then the Devices tab. Choose speakers and click Properties. You'll see this option:



Intuitive, eh?

 

With the MAC, HDCD will be ripped intact with the AIFF encoder in the rip. If you burn a cd from these files, you'll get HDCD.
BUT, you must have an HDCD equipped player to play the HDCD content.
Otherwise, the file will be played as a regular redbook file.

Try XLD to rip. Works great.

 

Thanks. I was aware of that, I just really like Foobar better. I want to make it work.

That was another reason I knew there was a problem with Foobar. The CD plays louder in Foobar than in WMP.

 

No, I didn't misread you. You misread me. I know the 16 bit file wasn't quieter. The 16 bit file isn't supposed to be quieter when HDCD decoding is taking place, not in foobar2000. The 24 bit file IS supposed to be quieter, not because HDCD decoding naturally induces a 6db pad, but because you're taking the 20-bit equivalent output of the HDCD decoder and sticking it into a 24 bit file.

I misspoke earlier though. If you have the foo_hdcd component then HDCD is being decoded properly BUT the status bar may not be formatted to display it.

Go into File -- Properties --- Display --- Default User Interface

Under "Status Bar" add the following after the existing text to display HDCD status info:

| HDCD = %__hdcd% | $if(%__hdcd%,'('PE: %__hdcd_peak_extend% LLE: %__hdcd_gain% TF: %__hdcd_transient_filter%')')

Once again, in foobar2000 HDCD encoded files are not supposed to play quieter than their standard CD counterparts. The old HDCD plugin added a 6db pad, as does Windows Media Player, because like the 24 bit file you decoded from the CD they are sticking 20 bits into a 24 bit file (or 24 bit output). The last 4 bits are null because there is no word length conversion going on.

Insert the above code into your status bar formatting and see what happens.

 

Okay Senn20, I finally got it. Thanks again for your patience and your help.

 

Cool!

I haven't used the standard user interface in such a long while that I forgot it doesn't display HDCD info in its stock form. It wasn't until I thought to look in the menu for it that I realized! Some others UIs do but don't show which HDCD features are being utilized. That script though I think covers it all. foobar2000 takes a lot of tweaking sometimes but I think it's worth it.

By the way, you can rip HDCD CDs to lossless FLAC and still maintain the HDCD encoding. Saves a bit of hard drive space and allows tagging.

 

How about ReplayGain values for HDCD-encoded albums/tracks with Peak Extend feature in fb2k? Are they accurate?

 

Can't say. I don't think I have any HDCDs with peak extend enabled. I think I recall hearing that ReplayGain would wreak havoc with the old foo_dsp_hdcd plugin, but I don't use ReplayGain.

 

I knew this, thanks. I am looking to save to WAVE because I want to volume match the tracks to insert into an existing compilation. I can volume match at 24 bit then dither back down to Redbook and get a better final result.

I think Brad's answer will be the way to go for decoding to WAVE and your answer really helped me out for general listening purposes.

 

Thanks, Brad! Most helpful, and much easier than using Foobar.

BTW, for all those people who kept telling me over the years that there is no difference in the sound of undecoded vs. decoded HDCD: you're wrong. I hear a difference with both peak-extended and non-peak-extended discs.

 

Son of a...

Well I'll be. I was wrong. Completely. Utterly. Sorry guys.

The issue of the 6db pad? Still there. I could have sworn I had checked at some point by enabling/disabling the plugin, or read in the documentation that there was no longer a 6db reduction in volume with the newer HDCD decoder. I guess I was just imagining it, because I just tried removing the plugin from the user-components directory just now and wouldn't you know it, HDCD files are 6db louder.

Sorry for propagating false info, folks.

 

iTunes rips are bit perfect so does it contain the HDCD file?

 

Any secure/accurate lossless rip will retain the HDCD data, which will be decoded on-the-fly within Foobar. No need for conversion in this case. You obviously need to convert to a 24-bit WAV (20-bit will do but isn't as widely supported) if you want to do anything else with the file, like make edits or burn to a DVD-V/DVD-A/BD.

 

You can specify in Preferences/Advanced/Decoding/HDCD Decoder in what situations the plugin should halve the volume.