Set up 1st turntable tonight - 1st impressions

By all means, try to get the best you can out of it - but don't expect it to ever be perfect. I've played with one for the best part of 3 years and used every trick in the book. It's actually a perfect cartridge to practice with, because its deficiencies are so apparent and you'll be able to hear the effect of your efforts relatively easily. It taught me a lot for sure, just be aware there's still a world of difference between this and a top quality stylus. I'm not really suggesting you get the $20 AT either, because it still won't be perfect. Better save up for an AT440MLa and do it right first time. To me, it seems as if time stood still for cartridge manufacturers and they're still living in 1985, offering the same basic styli in their entry level models. Unfortunately, listening to perfect sound forever for the past 30 years has changed their customers expectations and disappointment is unavoidable.

To give you an idea of the difference between Ortofon's Red and Blue styli, here's some images (these are actually from the new Quintet MC series). Theoretically the same 8x18 micron elliptical profile specification, but the Red is just too big and heavy for good performance on challenging record cuts.

 

Cool, glad he reached you....I just seen someone that was in a search for something...something that he could not define, did you see his run though equipment?

 

Curious that you don't seem to be recommending the Ortofon Blue as an upgrade. Yes, AT440Mla is fantastic, but the Blue is also a good option. I had the Red on a Debut Carbon and it didn't track that well - all the problems mentioned here. I now have a Blue and the difference is not subtle - an improvement in every way.

 

That was going to be my question. By all means I can afford a $200-$250 upgraded stylus. So should I go Blue or AT?

 

For myself, I went for the Ortofon Blue because it was an easy switch from the Red, and a good match with the Carbon tonearm. Other's here will know if the 440Mla is a good match with what you have or not.

 

Another vote for the Blue. My table came with it as standard so I haven't tried anything else but I love it. I have some seriously warped records and it never misses a beat and the sound is great

 

The AT its a terrific cartridge. Top notch tracker too and sound quality can't be faulted for the price. Used mine with a Rega P3 and that was a fine combination.

 

Rob, George,

While the Blue would certainly be an upgrade, I'm convinced it still won't handle my worst offending sibilance and IGD records. A shiny and polished nude tip it may be, but it remains a medium sharp elliptical profile. When I ran my Red, I always intended to get a Bronze Fine Line stylus, but by the time I was ready they had gone up from 180 to 220 and I said forget it when you can get a much better 440MLa MicroLine stylus for under 150. Sibilance and IGD performance to a very large extent comes down to the small (side) radius of the tip, 8 microns for the Blue vs. 5 for the 440.

Now, as mentioned in a previous post, Rob also needs to address the input capacitance of the phono pre, because 220pF is too much for either cartridge in my opinion. If he doesn't want to modify the TC-750, then the Blue may be the least of two evils, if he knows (someone with) a fine tipped soldering iron, he can change the stock 220pF ceramic capacitors to ~120pF film caps for the Blue or just remove them for the 440 (or put in something very small like 22pF max.). That's what I would do anyway, there's always personal preference and system matching involved of course - but still, some ideas to consider maybe.

 

My very personal opinion is that there are 3 real bargains when it comes to cartridges, AT92ECD, AT95E and AT440MLa. That the AT440MLa still has an MR cut needle for its price I don´t understand. Grab one while You can.

 

Audio Technica AT311EP is no slouch if you can find it. Audio Technica carts have always been a great bargain going way way back IMO.

But yeah - the 440MLa is something special.

 

I am deviating from my Audio Technica audio beginnings in a recent return to the spinning platter in an effort to try something new and "smooth".
Something tells me I may soon be back to the AT fold and quite possibly should have left well enough alone.

 

I flirted with a Grado cart on my previous Denon P-mount table a few years ago, but soon enough my 311EP was back in service.

 

Everybody got their favorites for a reason. These carts all do dound lovely. I am not too fond on the lower Ortofon's. If I had the 2m body I'd try to put a Bronze on it. I know they do have another generator with the Black. So I am not sure if it is possible to stick the Bronze stylus on the Red. Ask an expert before buying. That is a decent cart. I am a fan of Sumiko - Using the EVO III Blue Point Special, but they offer lower priced carts, too.
IF you are serious about a new Phono Pre I have a great offer for ya.
The Musical Fidelity V-90 LPS sounds amazing. Going from a NAD PP2 to the V-LPS was an ear opener. Best thing is the MC input is really good for a Pre of that price point. If you got the LPS you should get the all time classic DENON DL-103 or even better the 103R. These are around for a reason since the seventies. I know that this combo costs as much or more than the Carbon Debut BUT if you want a good dose of the magic Vinyl has to offer - spend the cash. You won't regret it, Personal guaranteed !
For records - go to the stores and look for near mint Rock albums. Most modern remasters have a lot more surface noises esp. those 180 gram audiophile pressings. They may sound superior but a good pressing from the days when LP was the main media will give you less of those pops and tickles and other mis-haps. Plus you get 5 or 10 for the price of 1 of those new pressings.
My 2 cents.

 

But yeah - the 440MLa is something special.[/QUOTE]

People swear by those g-carts- how did you know? i'm letting it be for know and hope for some break in down the road. it does have its good moments.

 

Dude, come on, the Pro-Ject Carbon arm has an effective mass of 6.0 grams; you can't match that with a 103/103R. An Ortofon 2M (any flavor) is perfect, compliance-wise.

 

It was a Grado Gold P-mount. It wasn't a good match for my P-Mount Denon table. Loads of inner groove distortion compared to the 311EP. The difference was not subtle. Would probably be great on another table.

 

Rob:
confusing, isn't it? I got back into vinyl about 4 years ago with a $30 Technics TT from craigslist. 2 TT's later I think I am at a place where I can say vinyl sounds better than cd's. Honestly, I think you have to spend some money to get to this level. I don't have a lot of money to spend on this hobby (of which i am absolutely passionate about). I have upgraded slowly and frugally. My 2nd TT was a Rega RP1 and my current rig is a Rega P3-24 with a Dynavector 10 x5 cartridge (cambridge 640p phono stage). Try not to listen too hard..enjoy your music. This forum is a great place for information and advice. take your time and consider each "upgrade" carefully. That being said, my backup cart is an AT 440 MLa. Wonderful cart. I dont think you can go wrong with it. I'm also a big fan of Rega anything, but especially turntables. Good luck. I think the best advise I got from this forum is "spend your money on more music".

 

I cannot stress the importance of waiting out the "breaking in" phase. I replaced my Ortofon Red with a Bronze awhile back. Initially, I was concerned because I didn't hear THAT much of a difference. After about 75 hours in, I find it hard to leave my house because I will miss my beloved Bronze too much.

 

Thanks for this. I have a new Quintet Bronze with maybe 12 LPs and 4 or 5 hours of the Cardas burn in record. It's getting better, but I wish it would happen faster.

 

I began with your exact setup. Carbon and 750 amp. I upgraded the cart, the platter and the amp. The acrylic platter really cuts down on static, the Pro-Ject Phono Box has a much bigger soundstage, and the new cart...well, worlds of difference (but you don't want to go there). If I were you, I'd get the platter, new amp and maybe upgrade to a Ortofon 2M Blue and I bet you'd be pretty happy.

 

For the first 20 hours or so, I would spin some records while the receiver was turned off while I was listening to cd's or doing other things. But believe me, you will know when the break-in period is over. Afterwards, it starts to sounds better and better. Crazy stuff!

 

Thanks, not only do I have your exact initial setup, I'm planning to get those exact upgrades. I'll give it time. Want to enjoy it for what it is before I make immediate improvements.

 

You can also get a Shure M97xE + a Jico SAS stylus for around that price.

 

If I upgrade to the Blue, should I get the whole cartridge, or just the stylus to put with the Red cartridge?

 

If I'm not mistaken, just the stylus; the rest is identical. The same goes for orange vs. black: same cart, different stylus.

Edit: Or you could get a whole Blue and sell the Red, but since you have it somewhat broken in already, I'd keep it.