Shure V15 - Very Nice Indeed

That's not the way it works for many audiophiles. We love a bargain, and to find that killer item that outperforms similar items way up the price ladder is something we all want.

I lived in Oz at the time I was running a vinyl rig, so the Shure was fully imported - and that had cachet in Oz. Also, it was expensive.

Regards,
Geoff

 

That may be true about so called audiophiles, but in the 60's and 70's, stores in the States that catered to audiophiles with money to burn typically pushed expensive Asian and European items and did would not go near items such as Shure and Dynaco; guess the profit on those local items were too thin and they did not have the "status" of imports.

Richard.

 

When I was selling hi fi in the 70s we sold a lot of McIntosh and ESS for the High end. For the mid hi we sold the big Pioneer, Kenwood and Sony receivers. For the entry and mid low we sold the Pioneer, Kenwood and Sony smaller models.
So for us the high end electronics were US made.

 

And at the high end, were you pushing the V15 or that nice and expensive Asian or European product?

Richard.

 

The shure V15 was popular, yet the Micro Acoustics 2002e was much better sounding. So for folks that wanted the best we sold the MA 2002e.
That is what I am using today since my goal was to recreate the hi fi I had in the 70s when I was selling them. I had sold it for $2k and spent the summer in Lake Tahoe and then purchased a lower priced system for $800 that I still have today.

Some folks liked Grado and some liked Audio Technica, yet that was for the $25 - $80 range. We even sold a few Stanton 600e.

On a side note, when changing a cartridge from a AT to the MA, the counter weight needs to come in 1.5 - 2 grams since the MA is so light.

Also note that Sony did have the esoteric V-Fet series amps out then and they did sound pretty good.

The ESS 500A (my Avatar) was a fantastic amp that sold for $1000 and IMO killed the Phase Linear 400 for sound clarity, damping factor and reserve power. It puts out 400 watts a channel into 4 ohms.

We sold a lot of JBL L100's yet IMO the ESS full size AMT series sounded better.

My main system currently is ESS AMT 1A towers with a quarter wave length transmission line bi amp with a st70 on top and ESS 500A on the bottom with a C20 pre amp (just like I had in the 70's).

Top of the line reel to reel was the Revox A77(?).

 

That'd be easy. What a poor amplifier that was! What was the fascination with those slow, muddy, coarse and downright ugly amplifiers?

Regards,
Geoff

 

I want to THANK john K. for this thread. I too have had a Benz M2 cartridge for about a year and a half and was feeling ...well... the same as John. After my buddy Todd Fredericks got one of these Shures I pretty much decided to try one. This thread however sent me on a mission.

I also want to thank Cliff, he posted on this thread an Audiogone post selling a Shure at big discount. I GOT IT.

After careful installment and a few hours of play, I can say THIS CART IS AMAZING. Highly recommended.

 

Re: Re: Shure V15 - Very Nice Indeed

 

Re: Re: Re: Shure V15 - Very Nice Indeed

You're very welcome, Ben And Mark, that's what really counts. A score for the Hoffmanites

 

Re: Re: Re: Shure V15 - Very Nice Indeed

 

Hey bencanas: You're welcome!

It turns out, by the way, that when I installed the cart I pretty much just threw it in my ET arm and checked basic alignment, VTF, etc., but not VTA. Once again, mostly because of poor instructions on Shure's part. I finally got to wondering and contacted Shure's customer service. They were quick to respond, but the first person who wrote back was wrong in what he told me. I double-checked and finally got the real story. I had it WAY low on VTA. Now with VTA correct, the cart is even more amazing to me: still smooth and with killer bass, but even more open and detailed. I just listened to an original Columbia six-eye pressing of Ellington Indigoes and I have never heard it sound better.

It's now got about 25 hours on it and is really hitting its stride--so you've got more to look forward to, bencanas. What with the fact that I'll only have to change stylii, not send the whole cart out, I have the feeling my Benz might be looking for a new home.

John K.

 

Exactly how do you have the VTA set? Or is it too difficult to describe? I was under the impression that my VTA should be set so the arm was parallel to the record surface. Granted I have the older version of the cart, but VTA is a cinch to adjust on my Grace tonearm--loosen one screw and move it. I don't mind doing a little tweakage now and then!

 

Jeesh...just go buy the Shure and be done with it!!

Seriously, if there was a way you could borrow one (either one or both, actually) and try it in YOUR turntable and tonearm, you could probably make a better decision. I know that even when auditioning components that weren't "high end", it never failed I'd discover the little quirks and shortcomings when I got home and lived with it for a short time.

FWIW, I bought my Shure V15 mail order, never having heard it anywhere. 20 years later, I'm still happy with it.

 

http://www.theanalogdept.com/adjusting_vta.htm

 

Most dance club dj's seem to prefer Ortofon's Nightclub or Stanton Track/GrooveMaster series cartridges, but Shure's Whitelabel has become a serious alternative since its release. I was playing on Stanton cartridges for several years, and I bought the Whitelabels on a whim earlier this year and instantly fell in love with its clarity and spot-on tracking. These are by far Shure's best product for the dj market.

 

Hey John--

What did you learn about optimum VTA for the V15VxMR?

 

OK, to be a little more clear (I wrote the earlier post in a hurry last night):

When I installed the V15 I didn't immediately adjust VTA, partly because there was no mention of it in the V15 instructions, and partly because, well, I was in a hurry (new thing to play with and all that).

After using it for a couple of days I settled down to dial it in carefully and noticed that the body of the cartridge was very close to the record. VTF was correct, so I finally paid attention to VTA and noticed that the angle of the body was tilted pretty far back. To get VTA to where I thought it should be I had to raise the arm pivot point a lot higher than it was for the Benz--the arm had a very pronounced upward slope. (Fortunately the ET arm is very adjustable.)

At this point I contacted Shure, and was told the following: "The body of the cartridge should be parallel to the record surface. This ensures proper angle of the stylus in the groove."

I took a picture and made the following (obvious) reply: "As you can see, the body of the V15 (A) has a decided angle. If I make the bottom of it parallel to the record surface, the needle doesn't even touch the groove. So what point on the "body of the cartridge" is the reference point to make parallel? Perhaps you mean the top surface of the mounting lugs (B) should be parallel? Or perhaps the line inscribed on the side of the stylus assembly (C)?"

Their answer was that I had it installed correctly. Big help.

What I took away from it is this: make the cartridge parallel to the record using either the surface of the mounting lugs or the line on the stylus assembly as a reference point. In my case, I had to get the arm up so high because 1) the V15 is a taller cartridge, and 2) the way the mounting lugs contact the arm tilts the cartridge back slightly.

John K.

That all said, I have done a lot of archive reading over at AA, and most people seem to recommend trying a VTA with the cartridge a little more forward than parallel (higher in the back) to open it up even more. I have not experimented further yet, but the theory would be to raise the arm until the bass starts to go away, then bring it back down to just below that point.

 

Thanks, John. That's very helpful. My VTA looks pretty much like yours, and I've aimed to make that reference line parallel in just the way you describe.

Interesting that you have the lugs UNDER the headshell and the mounting screws on TOP. That's the way I've always installed every cartridge I've owned. The V15VxMR manual, though, has the lugs on top and the screws underneath. I installed the cart that way, which was a bit of a bother when it came time to adjust overhang, but figured it was better to follow instructions. Now I'm wondering if that's true.

Does your manual say the same thing?

 

Only in the picture. In the text is says, "Insert the screws...from either above or below." So you can officially do it the way you're used to!

Frankly, I don't know why they show it that way. Probably because the artist had never been near a real tonearm. The lugs appear to have been designed with the express idea of capturing the nuts, making installation very easy, and pretty close to a threaded cartridge. (One of my pet peeves from the old days was trying to hold the nuts still while turning the screws.)

John K.

 

I was shure puzzled--and since pictures speak volumes, I obviously didn't read the text very carefully at that item. Many thanks for the clarification. Nice to know I can't make a mistake here.

The price is certainly right on this cart, but they've left off a few of the amenities I remember from the 80's, like a free demo/test disc or at least a printout of the QC frequency-response check. Those little things that mean so much....

 

Well I'm in, Thanks to the continued high regard all of you have for this cart I bought one last night. Shipping out Wednesday. With luck I may get it by the weekend. You guy's are cool as hell, but hanging out here can get expensive! LOL

 

Just a word of advice -- give this cart some time to break in. Mine sounded "flat" and "lifeless" for the first 20 or so hours, but really opened up after that.

 

OK, my own version is slightly different but probably has the same end result.

First of all, the old Grado cartridges were reportedly designed so that if all of the square surfaces of the cartridge body were at a right angle to the vinyl, it was correctly aligned (which by nature would mean the VTA, going from a right angle off the front of the cartridge).

With my original Shure V15 Type V, I was given an alignment jig to put in place of the stylus assembly. It was just a plastic blade that sat at a right angle to the direction of the grooves. To check side to side alignment of the cartridge (so the headshell was level left to right, looking at the front of it), you used this alignment device to make certain the cartridge body was level left to right...otherwise, it would need to be shimmed under the appropriate screw to bring it into level.

While the instructions didn't explicitly state it, this alignment piece also had a small pip on the bottom of it that I thought might be the actual location of the stylus. After aligning the cartridge with Shure's protractor, I checked this against my Dennesen arm protractor, and it was dead on accurate. Next up was to adjust the tonearm to be level using the same jig, by resting this plastic piece on an old LP. That would mean the headshell is level as well (at least in this tonearm).

I would assume this newer V15 also has a reference point for leveling the tonearm in order to have a correct tracking angle for the stylus. The contact patch of that stylus is very narrow, and I'm sure it needs to be at a precise angle to ensure the grooves are tracking correctly.

I could not find my original box from my V15, but I'll keep looking for it. I did find two lunched stylus assemblies. One actually looked intact, but the stylus had frozen in place. The other stylus was gone completely. I think these are two candidates for the $50 replacement.

 

I assumed so, too. Too bad that customer service at Shure (two different answers from two different people) couldn't tell me what that reference point was.

I remember getting one of these with an old Dual turntable. It was a great help in dialing in the cartridge.

John K.