Sinatra Capitol Years 20 lp set - Opinions needed

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by eddiel, May 13, 2008.

  1. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Hi

    I've given up trying to source playable original pressing of Sinatra's Capitol released on lp.

    I saw this set advertised and thought I'd get some info on it.

    I believe it was released in 1984 and I think these are the same masters as the CD version of the Capitol years box set.

    Any opinions on sound quality. I know they won't be as good as the originals but are they still good or just plain not listenable?

    Thanks

    Eddie
     
  2. christopher

    christopher Forum Neurotic

    pity. i recently completed collecting sinatra's capitol years LPs--except for the soundtracks to pal joey, high society and can can; it took me just under a year.

    keep looking, it's worth it not just for the thrill of the hunt, but for sound quality, as well. :righton:

    later, chris
     
  3. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Not sure if my blood pressure can cope!! :)

    Seriously 4 purchases in the first few months of this year and all were duds. Badly graded. There aren't many shops in London that sell records or would have them and record fairs usually turn up nothing as well. :-(

    Eddie
     
  4. JasonK

    JasonK Active Member

    Location:
    Tujunga, CA.
    I recently got the Nat King Cole set from the same series. It was overseen by Alan Dell and probably mastered at Abbey Road. The care that went into this set is evident throughout. I was extremely dubious of the digital sourcing, but these are the best sounding digitally sourced LP's I have ever owned, bar none. Frankly, I was shocked by how good it sounded. The album "Love Is The Thing" was as good if not better than the DCC gold CD-go figure! Nice touches too-they added the mono (only) tunes back onto the album that were taken off when the stereo version was issued.
    I agree that with time you probably will find nice originals, but I would never trade this Nat King Cole 20 album set. I'm the first guy to rally for all analog sourcing, but these LP's really do sound good. If the price is fair I say go for the Sinatra.
    BTW the pressing is superb on my set. Flat and quiet vinyl. Here's a pic of the NKC

    nat-web.jpg
     
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  5. johnny33

    johnny33 New Member

    Location:
    usa
    That's a beauty Jason.May have to hunt one down.


    I am not so sure though that the same can be said for the Sinatra boxset. Martin ( MMM) knows much more about this I am sure. I would say search the archives. I am afraid Frank Sinatra grey label mono's with the fancy scroll etc along with the Capitol Rainbow Capitol logo @ 9 O'clock is about the only way to go. There are a few exceptions.

    If only it were so easy as getting a boxset to get how Frank sounds best :shake:

    But if one has no Frank might be a nice start.


    Oh, and can someone please chnage the name in the thread title to Frank Sinatra? :)
     
  6. Capitol Years

    The mono albums on this Alan Dell vinyl set are from true mono sources (SFSL excepted, I think )and (with the exception of Young Lovers/ Swing Easy)beat the MoFi set hands down. the stereo has always sounded a little 'thin' to me - but the ...Sings for Only the Lonely LP is 'glossy' and spacious as it should be.

    It's the lesser of several evils, I think, when it comes to deciding which Sinatra to get. I, too, have collected original pressings of the Capitol era over the last couple of years - all USA apart from Point of No Return and Come Swing With Me - which were first British pressings. And, generall, it's nice to have them but they are far from mint and I ususally end up going back to the CD version of this UK set for mono and my larry Walsh CDs for stereo. It's a nicely produced set, though and - although digitally sourced - you can't really go wrong with it, I don't think. I'd have one myself if - as I say - I didn't go down the best available CD route and the 'Well-at-least-this-is-an-original-gray-label-I-am-holding-in-my-hands-even-if-it-plays-like-it-was-recorded-in-the-vicinity-of-a-cement-mixer' - which describes my Sinatra Capitol collection at the moment - and for the forseeable future unless the suits at EMI finally realise the value of their holdings and get their act together.
     
  7. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I did have do a search and found some references to remastered LPs but no specific mention of this box set.

    I do have a few Frank lp's including the EMI 100 series and a couple which I think are in this box set. The rest are reissues although they are in very good shape. They do look unplayed so that is quite nice.

    The originals I found so far have all been a dissapointment. I bought one that was listed as NM and well it was. Not a scratch on it. Only problem being the grooves had worn out!! :)

    I'll have a think about this box set as it might be nice to get the complete set like this bar the problem of finding originals.

    Eddie
     
  8. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    [MODERATOR: Two separate discussion threads combined at this point, one regarding a recent purchase by Bob F.]

    I have said this before...and I KNOW you know, Bob. Someone once referred to this set as a "Poor Man's MoFi" (referring to the Silver Box). However, this is far from it and I have good ol' Matt to thank for encouraging me to seek out these LP's. Some clearly rival and one or two surpass the silver Box LP's.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
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  9. jiminiss

    jiminiss Forum Resident

    Location:
    western mass
    anybody ever offer any opinions on this? I'm specifically wondering if the lps were simply source from the digital remasters. comparing them to other vinyl and to the cd copies of this collection it sounds to me as if they might have been.
     
  10. jiminiss

    jiminiss Forum Resident

    Location:
    western mass
    actually just found this :
    "This 20 Record Box Set is Exclusively manufactured by EMI Capitol, Middlesex, England. Each Record is digitally remastered from the original analogue tapes".
    That would explain why it sounds digital to me. There are tracks that to my ears sound better in the 16 bit cd version, vs the pressed to vinyl from the same masters version. The cd version sounds amazingly warm (as mentioned by so many folks here and elsewhere). The vinyl is less consistent. I think I'm going to create a digital set for myself using all my sources. track by track take my pick as best sounding. I have a lot of different Sinatra vinyl pressings and the uk 20 cd set. some of my vinyl is 10" uk mono original and sounds better than the uk Capitol years set. but there are a lot of tracks that sound best from this set either cd or vinyl. I cannot collect original us grey etc. so this'' be my best shot at an all around best sounding set.
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    There is no "complete"-style Capitol set (LP, CD, UK, USA, Mars, whatever) that does a good job (sonically) on every title. They all are a very mixed bag, although I view this 1980's UK "Dell" set as one of the better collections.

    I refer you to this page for a fairly detailed breakdown of what's good and bad in the sets:
    http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/Capitol_Scorecard_2.html

    Only two albums are subpar in the Dell LP set: Swing Easy and In the Wee Small Hours. The rest all range from very good to excellent (and beyond). Also, the set contains good versions of all five of the original singles compilation albums, while some sets contain zero of these, and MFSL contains three.

    Note that the Christmas album is not included, so you may want to track down a used copy of the MFSL release (it was released separately, not in the MFSL silver box) if you want that one to round out the set. MFSL's mastering is tops for that title, IMO.
     
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  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Beyond any sources that are correct/incorrect, I find most of the stuff from that set to have too much top. It's not usually to the point of it being in your face bright or anything like that, but enough *for me* to be put off to it overall. It's like an extra bit of top was added above what was needed and ended up watering down somewhat the overall presentation/everything below the boost. It also has a bit of an 80's sound to my ears. This is obviously a broad brush, and individual titles will yield slightly different results. That said, I can't think of too much I would outright call bad or anything. You can do MUCH worse than that set, and it's an easy, relatively cheap way of picking up these albums in relatively good sound (and likely condition) before digging through the trenches for something better, if you desire. POINT OF NO RETURN from the set is pretty nice in its way though, and maybe the best sounding title in the set. Part of that may be due to the inherent sound of that album taking to this mastering style better.
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    That's why we have tone controls, I guess.

    IMO, any treble issues here are minor/subtle, nothing that goes to 11, as they say. When I've doggedly A/B'd some tracks, yes, the Dell LPs are a little bright on a track here and there, but in everyday listening I have never, even once, thought to myself, "That LP is too bright." (Issues with "wrong tapes" may be a different story.)

    Now....Swingin' Session in the MFSL 1983 box? THAT'S a bright LP!!! I still need to repaint my living room after playing that one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
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  14. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    :D
     
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Common misconception about LP vs. CD sets: NOT the same masters.
     
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  16. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    What's even more remarkable about this set sounding so good, is that these were transferred from dubs of the masters sent from Capitol to EMI in the UK, then transferred to 3M digital tape at 16/44 in the early 1980's, in other words using old technology yet in many instances they are amongst the best sounding versions out there.
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Hmmm....I'm not so sure. I think that at least some (I suspect all) of these were digital dubs made at Capitol, and sent via digital U-Matic tape to EMI in the UK. By 1983 Capitol was already doing U-Matic digital dubs of their vintage tapes, so running off a copy for the UK should have been pretty straightforward.

    (Why boast about "Digitally Remastered" in 1984/85 if the digital sources are made from analogue dubs? If you are going to digitally remaster the LPs, it makes sense to get digital dubs of the USA masters, IMO.)
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I put on my moderator hat and moved some posts from a recent "For Sale" classified thread to this Music Forum thread where more people are likely to find the info down the road.
     
  19. Jimmy Cagoots

    Jimmy Cagoots Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Ct.
    Just scored this 20 lp box in minty condition at the local Goodwill yesterday. Box is beat, but most lp's look unplayed.
    $19.99 :wiggle:
     
  20. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    WHAT??? That has to be the find of the decade!!!! CONGRATS!!!!!
     
  21. Doug Cummins

    Doug Cummins New Member

    Location:
    Australia
    I have the Capital Years Box set 20 vinyl individually jacketed records in mint condition never been out of their jackets. I want to sell the set, what are they worth? I also have the Reprise Years box set 4 vinyl records in equally as good condition and the Frank Sinatra The Great Films & Show 4 compact disc box set, never used.
     
  22. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
  23. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm a "Citizens For Boysenberry Jam" Fan

    Location:
    Ohio USA
    This is one of the sets that I truly regret parting with!
     
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I think there's a good argument to be made that it's the best of the so-called complete Capitol sets. (Yes, it has some serious flaws, but all the big sets do.)
     
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  25. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    It was oft referred to as "The Poor Man's Big Silver Box". I highly disagree.
     
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