Yeah, truly mint and near mint often take the book value out of the equation to some extent when you're talking about a 50+ year old record. Does "Wee" and "Songs for Swingin' Lovers" tend to get substantially more than his '57-'58 releases? I just picked up "Where Are You," "Come Fly With Me" and "A Swinging Affair," all pretty close to NM gray labels for around $12 each. But I don't think I've ever seen any of those demand the kind of prices of the albums above. I assume the 10" "Songs For Young Lovers" can get pricey in great condition as well? Can you or anyone tell me if the gray label combination of that and "Swing Easy" sound as good as the individual 10" records? I read a link Steve gave awhile back but I wasn't sure what their conclusion was, other than once the 60s versions came around the sound suffered. BTW, a side note, I'm really excited to find there's a great Frank Sinatra album that I've never heard before. It's like a new Beatles record being discovered for me. Or, I suppose, a new Frank Sinatra record. I'm not sure how it's escaped me all these years but I just recently heard some of "Close To You And More" and I can't wait to get the LP. I've always favored the slower Frank and this one sounds like it's right up my alley. Never saw a CD release of this one before either.
Yes, the gray 12" Young Lovers/ Swing Easy is every bit as good - if not better - than the two 10" albums (Young Lovers released 54 years ago this month, by the way). I also have the MOFi box which is one of the best pressings - of this particular title at least. There is also a Toshiba pressing very hard to come by - which is raved about. Don't know if this link has been posted before, but I find this website article fascinating.
The 10" copies that I have don't sound that great - the 12" W-587 is much better. Neat to have because they're 10" and the first issues, but not from a sound standpoint. The MoFi, which at one time I was skeptical about (based on how some of the other records in that set didn't come out right), is the best version ever released that I know of. They used good tapes for it... CLOSE TO YOU is a really great album, but it took a few plays before I "got it". "With Every Breath I Take" is one of Frank's very best songs, and that sequence of it, "Blame It On My Youth", and "It Could Happen To You" is one of the greatest song sequences on any of his albums, IMO. The really good copies sound amazing. The '87 CD is scarce - it uses the good tapes, but (like WEE SMALL) has echo added to it. The Norberg is not so hot - it's got his usual processing, and IIRC comes from the tampered dubs, but at least it's easily available.
It bothers me a lot too. I agree about the "FS on digital" comment... I do think you're placing too much fault with the Sinatras with regards to the quality of the reissues (at least the mastering quality, etc.), that they do not have a part in the production of. I understand (don't ask how) that Nancy is not exactly happy with what Capitol has done with their part of the Sinatra catalog either.
I thought I'd revive this thread to ask a question: Does anyone know anything about an Australian issue of "Wee Small Hours?" I came across one today, and it's packaged quite differently from copies of the Walsh version I've seen before (both US and EU versions). This one has a liner note inside that's dated 1984 and touts it as a new digital version of the album. There's no other date I could find. The label on the disk itself is a very classy full black. I can't remember the number of cuts and didn't have a chance to note down any numbers and etc. The only thing they had for listening to it in the store was a crappy little diskman--and the noise-level in the place made it impossible for me to tell what it sounded like. Anyone know anything? They're holding it for me, and I might jkust pick it up for the $8 just to satisfy my curiosity, but thought I'd ask before I do. L.
It sounds like it could be the ones produced by Alan Dell, if it's 1984 or so. i have a vinyl copy of "..Sings for Only the Lonely" and it's not bad.
Let's all hope that Capitol doesn't pull their '70's stunt again and reissue "In The Wee Small Hours" as a condensed 10-track travesty called "What Is This Thing Called Love?"...they left off at least 8 songs because of that! Michael Boyce
Thanks to whoever brought this thread into the present. As a result, I discovered this surprisingly interesting version of "I've Got You Under My Skin": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPyZ6j5l-PQ I can't stop listening to it.
I found an Australian version of "Nice N' Easy" a few years back, and it is different from anything else I have (which includes the UK 21 cd set). It sounds like it is more apt to be a flat transfer of a tape, more noise than any other Capitol I have heard to date (maybe pre-Walsh?), but there is alos more air there. The differences aren't huge compared to the Walsh version, but they are there. I picked it up for $8, and I'd urge you to do so too. Anytime I find myself wondering about a Sinatra product where I can remove the uncertainty for $8 I consider to be a bargain.
OK: so out of curiosity I bought the Australian disk and I've had a chance to so some A/B comparisons. The bottom line? I do think that this is another unique mastering job, but not all that unique--or at least not in the ways that might really matter. I compared the title cut to the the Walsh version as well to as the one on "The Capitol Years" collection and it sounds similar to the Walsh, although I don't think it's quite as loud. It certainly has reverb added to it, although it sounds to me like its not as deep. This, to my ears, makes it sound like it preserves some of the striking intimacy that the dry "Capitol Years" version has, but not so much that I'd recommend scouring the earth to find a copy. The reverb still distances the voice in a more open space, just maybe not quite as open as the Walsh. It also sounds to me a little "rawer" than the Walsh. I'll have to defer on this to those with better trained ears or more revealing equipment, but it sounds to me like Walsh took come care to use EQ to soften some of the rough spots in Sinatra's delivery (his voice takes on a dramatic edginess sometimes when he goes for a high note while also getting louder). Such moments sound a little softer or more polished on the Walsh, but again the differences are subtle (if, indeed, my ears aren't playing tricks on me). This is not a scientific comparison. There is a note on the back page of the insert booklet signed "Alan Dell 1984," so this does seem to have predated Walsh's work (which someone else pointed out was begun in 1987, yes?). There's no other date on it. The disk has the same 16 tracks as the Walsh and a short essay by Pete Welding on the inside of the booklet (my Walsh is a CD-R, so I don't know if that one has the same essay). Again, the bottom line is that this does not give us the dry version we'd love to have, but it stands up to the Walsh (it's very similar in feel, and maybe more similar than that). It might just a little better in some ways, but this maybe the result of wishful listening. L.
Man that echo sucks. Why don't that master them again? It's been 10 years since the last crappy remasters. A flat transfer on a vintage tube deck from the best tapes man. That's all we ask. How hard can that be?
Very well said. I think in just a few words you've eloquently stated the thoughts of this entire forum regarding the state of all modern remasters. Truly, how hard can this be?
Slightly OT, but can't stress how good original copies of "Songs for Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" on vinyl sound. No echo to speak of...it really sounds like Frank is in the room!
But you see that is completely contrary to how all of the recent digital masterings where intended. They wanted Frank to sound like he was in the other room!!
I see this thread has been resurrected from the dead. So as of today, when "In The Wee Small Hours" is close to 60 years old, no definitive digital version has been released? A shame indeed as it is such a fantastic recording, artistically and technically.
Actually, there is a very nice CD version (no added reverb), but it is part of the 1998 21-CD box set, SINATRA: THE CAPITOL YEARS, released by EMI in the UK. Not available separately. Lots of discussion about this that is more recent than 2008, e.g.: —> Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality: In the Wee Small Hours (1955)
I am listening to the 1991 Larry Walsh CD as I type. On cheap computer speakers, if that matters. Listenable it is. The echo, admittedly, is wierd. When I first got it in 1995, my impression on it was how "modern" it sounded. The needledrop I did of the gray label LP back in 1997 is decent, but the distortion drives me crazy at times. Perfect copies of this album (the original gray label) are impossible to find.
