Slaughter A Few Sacred Audiophile Cows

Cool, the turn of phase is purely metaphorical. Been a veggie myself since 1993.

 

Much earlier?

"The claim that coloring CDs could improve their sound originated in late 1989, was spread at the winter Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in early 1990, and achieved national prominence when it was printed (and given credence) in the March 1990 issue of ICE (the International CD Exchange newsletter)."

 

Well the measurements for Technics SL1210 and such like are very impressive. Improving on it would be quite a task. A belt drive without a quartz Controlled motor like one that the Dual CS-5000 has would not be able to compete with such a rock solid performance - technically speaking.

 

Well, specs as published by a manufacturer are useful, though always should be taken w/ a grain of salt vs. third party measurements. I mentioned measurements, not specs per se. They're often best case measurements, sometimes reported in ways that are incomplete, etc. And I'm not saying they should be relied on exclusively, or that they measure everything -- there aren't any commonly published turntable specs that measure tone arm ringing and resonances (and pretty much all arms ring and are the weak spot in my experience with turntables) and plinth and platter ringing and resonances, susceptibility acoustic breakthrough, etc, for example all of which result in bloomy, mushy upper bass and lower midrange, detail masking, and other sorts of problems -- just that they shouldn't be continual discounted, as they often are by people who believe audio is only appropriately approached completely intuitively.

Second, some of the specs on an SL1210, particularly the Mk 2 are good and those SL1200 family tables are OK, but they're not the best turntables ever made. And that speed spec is only one important aspect of a turntable's sound and belt drive deck with sufficient flywheel type inertia do fine on speed stability with eccentricity in LP hole centering -- obviously not something that can be address by the motor drive system -- being a much more significant contributor to pitch instability than anything else. When you're talking about .02% W&F on even belt drive deck specs like many of the VPIs for example, you're in the realm of vanishing audibility for pitch instability, and many of these modern higher end decks to a much better job terminating record resonances, eliminating tone arm ringing, damping chassis resonances, isolating the cartridge from EMF radiation from things like motors (or strobe lights, etc) than those 70s and 80s decks. As I mentioned, focusing on any one thing and presuming that it always is determinative and better than any other thing -- is another one of those sacred cows or common approaches that really should be put to bed. These are engineered systems with lots of moving part and none of them are perfect and there are many functional paths to the same end.

 

I acquired a SL1200mk2 several weeks ago and for fun just popped a Linn Klyde MC cartridge on the stock turntable and was surprised how good it sounded. I agree that the arm looks great and makes the deck look classic.

 

Going back to the OP's original concept, how about this one:

 

No amount of speed boxes or Quartz Lock will make a belt drive perform like a Technics SL-1200 or SP line or top class overengineered broadcast idler drive. Not doable. Sometimes you need something with some substance behind it to be reliable and perform well.

 

Some valid points here, but too often belt drive falls short, with wobbly sounding pianos/guitars on the start of LP sides, for example. This is something I have yet to experience on even the cheapest direct drive. IGD is also an underlining issue which I have bad experience with on belt drive, even one that has been aligned by an expert. Us cynics would argue that the reason why most TTs are BD is because it is CHEAP.

 

I agree, though 1980s Duals like CS5000 are reliable workhorses, IMO.

 

Shocking that the OP is nearly the only audiophile hater to come out of the woodwork so far!

Why is it always a member with a 20+ year old CD player who believes that big spenders on audio gear are morons?

 

Yeah, the Stoplite Pen!

 

This chestnut's been trotted out for over 25 years, usually by people who've never tried it. I think it's reached its expiration date.

John K.

 

I've got some polished creek rocks I'll sell ya along with some quartz crystals I found in my driveway. I guarantee you'll hear a difference even if it's only the echo from your vacated wallet.

 

This is a sacred cow that needs to be slaughtered (again and again). Below a certain level (which most high-quality belt drives achieve) W&F is not due to rotational stability of the drive system but to other factors such as tonearm geometry, cartridge compliance, LP surface irregularities, and centering of the LP hole. Some may think they hear better performance, but a rotary function generator connected to the platter of a DD and BD turntable (you know, measurements) will give W&F results well below those using a tonearm and test record. Sure, a SL-1200 may measure better, but in real world use this is most likely not discernible.

John K.

 

Amplified music relies on sound waves. Primary sound waves generate secondary sympathetic vibrations and resonances in items in the listening room. Most obvious of course are when a subwoofer generates a really low note and something rattles or vibrates, which you perceive as a secondary noise not directly produced by your stereo system, but even higher notes generate secondary effects. So, obviously, things placed in the listening room can have an impact on what sounds you hear. Whether or not you can perceive the secondary sounds generated by the first waves, and whether or not it matters to you is a different question. But to claim there is no influence is incorrect.

John K.

 

I'm not sure if you are aware, but you're limited to redbook bitrates when using iTunes. If that's not a dealbreaker, then that's fine. However, using something like Amarra for instance will allow you to playback hi-rez files. It's certainly an improvement. I'm not sure how using superior playback software on a Mac is slaughtering an audio cow. It's an audible improvement. Why wouldn't I want higher quality files?

 

Dual CS 5000 is decent, but is not built to workhorse standard. You'll see 1200 series Dual idler changers in working order after CS 5000 machines are gone. Some things on the CS 5000 are aging less than ideally. These were made when Dual was past their peak of build quality. Dual was at their peak with the 1229.

 

I think a lot of the denigration is just plain & simple jealousy.

 

I dunno, IGD seems to me more a function of cartridge, stylus shape, setup and pressing/recording than turntable drive method. I've been running a belt drive table now for around 20 years -- a Merrill Heirloom which is an AR variant with extreme measures taken to dampen and isolate spurious resonances: motor in lead pod and surrounded by a shock absorbing damping bath, lead and acrylic platter, lead damped sub platter, acrylic subchassis, etc. -- and I now that I'm rocking an AT33EV I must say I have zero audible IDG. Whether you're using belt drive or direct drive you wind up with the same challenges -- how to isolate motor noise/vibration from the stylus/record interface, how to keep environmental sources of vibration from impinging on the stylus/groove interface, how to shield the cart from EMF radiation, how to terminate non-groove modulation record resonances, etc. All those things are as important or more important that this question of pitch stability...or more accurately, you can get pretty similar pitch stability out of a belt drive table with good platter inertia and low bearing friction and out of a DD table....but all those other things make a huge difference to all the things that add up to transparency, revelation of low level detail, accurate soundstaging, good frequency extension and balance, etc.

 

Wow, that's an awful lot of lead. Please promise me you'll never lick your turntable.

 

Ha! I also use lead tape to swing weight my golf clubs I'm more in contact with lead that way. I think there are probably other materials designers might use today but the lead pod for the motor is effective.

 

Not a hater, more a sceptic/cynic. The Sensible Sound magazine frequently voiced similar opinions back in the day.
I happen to like the 1990s CD players - very sweet and enduring IMO. I also got a Marantz CD recorder from about 2002 that plays newer discs very well, even loudness war CDs sound pretty reasonable on it.

 

That was my question! I was hoping to learn something in this thread.

 

Speaker/Equipment Isolation boards that look like chopping blocks & room treatment when a well furnished room stops clingy echo & overpriced so called audiophile CDs . A good mastering is a good mastering.