Some OJC (and other Concord CDs) are being re-pressed as CD-Rs. List them here

Now I'm glad I went straight to Discogs for a second hand copy earlier this summer. One small dimple in the booklet, but otherwise close enough to the advertised 'near mint' condition.

 

My most recent OJC CD-R:

The Montgomery Brothers - Groove Yard (Riverside RLP9362)
Made in USA - No ID sticker on top, 1993 remaster version by Phil De Lancie, Fantasy Studios
The print quality of book and tray card was poor and obviously laser printed.

From importcds on Amazon.
I contacted them, they told me to return it for a full refund, which I did right away.

I've since replaced it with one of those grey market cd's out of Barcelona. The sound quality is great, and it includes alternate takes from the original session. So 'screw you Universal Music'.

 

The Fantasy group of labels, including Riverside and the OJC reissues, is owned by Concord, not Universal.

 

My mistake, it's that Universal logo on the back that threw me.

 

Concord is distributed by Universal and probably part owned too.

The CD-R problem we are discussing is a Universal problem, not a Concord-specific problem.

 

Concord is indeed distributed but not part-owned by Universal.

List of Universal Music Group labels - Wikipedia

List of Universal Music Group labels - Wikipedia (Third-party major labels distributed by Universal Music Group)

 

I'd be interested to know which other smaller non-Universal labels have started using CD-Rs. I'm sorry if this has already been covered. For instance, I have heard of SteepleChase using CD-Rs. Luckily, there is the SteepleChase 45th Anniversary reissue series from Japan now.

 

That I know of from personal experience:

* Candid
* Chiaroscuro
* Acrobat (euro gray market label)

 

It just seems you have to buy used CDs to try to avoid CDRs

 

Not necessarily. CD-Rs are showing up in used bins as well. A concerned buyer has to check the CD itself after investigating some of the tell-tale signs discussed in this thread on the insert and tray cards - then let the store owner know. One that I told didn't give a damn, but another one at a different store did and hopefully won't stock them anymore if someone brings them in to sell.

 

Easy to do in used stores, but hard to do on-line. Most used dealers on Amazon marketplace are large operations (often chains) and cannot or will not check. When I am taking a chance on Amazon Marketplace with CDs suspected of being possible CDRs, I buy used, and it is almost always an early real CD pressing

 

I've emailed questions to sellers, but have been careful to ask specifics about whether there's a bar code on the disc or something like that rather than a general "Is this a CD-R" b/c most of them either don't know or won't know what to look for. If they don't know or won't answer, then I won't buy from them. I've done the same with books when I'm looking for a certain edition. If the seller doesn't know/won't answer, no sale.

 

There are some shockers in my personal experience CD-R list...

Atlantic
Barclay [Jazz In Paris]
Blue Note
Capitol Jazz
Chiaroscuro
Contemporary [OJC]
debut [OJC]
EmArcy
Galaxy [OJC]
Milestone [Keepnews Collection]
Mercury / Jazzplus
Pablo [OJC]
Prestige [OJC]
Prestige / Bluesville [OBC]
Riverside [OJC]
Verve [Originals]

Apart from Jazz, some other genres of music is circulating on CD-R. The list includes..
Burnside
Concord / Picante
Rounder
Takoma
Varrick

* All individual CD-R titles have been mentioned upthread!

 

Yes, Jackie P, this is a great list. It shows that basically all Universal-distributed labels are affected. This includes Concord [incl. OJC, RVG, and Keepnews], Verve, Blue Note/EMI [incl. RVG], Mercury/EmArcy/Island, Capitol, and Impulse and GRP [the latter two not confirmed but probable].

I was not aware that Atlantic (owned and distributed by WMG IIRC) was affected but I have also noted a couple of indies, one of which you mention -- Chiaroscuro and Candid. Plus at least one grey market label, Acrobat.

 

The one I ended up with was

Evolution II - John Lewis (Atlantic CD-R)

The sleeve/booklet was so poorly cut and stapled together as to beggar belief. The seller told me to keep disc and issued full refund.

 

I got a copy of Bill Frisell's "Have a Little Faith" for my birthday over the summer that was a CD-R. The real crime was that it was pressed with those obnoxious two second gaps -- and the first half of this record is a continuous suite of music! So I had Amazon replace it, specifying I did not want a CD-R. Sure enough, not only was the replacement a CD-R with gaps, it was defective (it had one of those big spider web-like marks on the playing surface). I told Amazon thanks but no thanks and ordered one from Discogs. Plays great, looks great. No hassle.

In fairness, Amazon's page for this product did list that it was a CD-R on demand, my wife just didn't know to look for such a thing when shopping. I also have a copy of Neil Young's "Life" that was pressed on a CD-R, but since it was also a gift (from a few years ago) and didn't suffer from the same two-second gap problem I decided to live with it.

 

I don't trust a single sealed OJC anymore. It's incredible that, in such a highly regulated area such as the EU, companies are allowed to produce and sell inferior, poorly manufactured products that don't get declared as such. Plus, I don't see the benefit: as soon as you produce a bulk of 200 CDs or more, burning the CDs individually and copying the artwork by hand with simple scanners/printers is more expensive than giving the job to professionals.

 

To be clear, nothing is being done by hand; the CD burning is being contracted out to a duplicator, and the inserts are from standard stock. I know the latter to be true because I have had legit CDs in the line with the "photocopied" look. I might be able to provide a pic if you're curious. And my CDR Keepnews edition of The Hawk Flies High had a thicker and glossier booklet than my legit copy.

As to the price advantage of normal manufacturing, this leads me to believe that CDR pressing numbers must be very small indeed. Perhaps runs of 100.

 

Real CD pressings under quantities of 500 or 1,000 are very expensive. The CD-R model basically allows the labels to cut manufacturing costs and operate on a "just in time" inventory model. I'd guess the runs are very small. Wouldn't be surprised if say 50 are made at a time. Personally I wish OJC and other Concord affiliated labels would just raise prices a little and press real CDs.

I can excuse a small time self releasing artist or boutique label for moving to CD-Rs, even though it's far from what I prefer - but a bigger company like Concord or a major like Universal really has no excuse.

If the labels aren't going to do real CDs, just give a site where we can buy FLAC versions of the albums at reasonable prices. Not the $17.99 crap HDTracks does. $7.99 for a 16/44 FLAC download would be fair...

 

A lot of the smaller time sellers that are just selling personal collections usually have no problem answer questions. Record stores selling online are sometimes responsive also. The warehouse volume sellers and junk movers are the ones that never respond or can't give you a straight answer IME.

 

Hilariously, they DID raise the prices -- the CDR titles evidently have a higher list/wholesale price than the old legit copies. 1 out of 2 ain't bad?

The kinds of numbers we're talking about here do give a bleak sense of how few copies classic jazz catalogue titles are moving these days. (It's telling that no single title has been reported by two different people!)

 

I bought all 4 of the OJC Art Pepper at the Village Vanguard CDs in July directly from Amazon (not a third party.) 1 of the 4 ('Saturday Night') was a CD-R. Different disc artwork. Instead of yellow and 'clear,' it is yellow and white. The underside of the disc looks like a CD-R. Since I waited too long to unseal it, I was past my return period to send it back. So instead I reordered the same title from ImportCDs. Received it today. Same kind of CD-R.

 

Another Joe Henderson title to add to the list: The Elements. CD-R with the bifold insert, looks like a photocopy.
Just received Booker Ervin's The Freedom Book, CD-R but with trifold booklet, RVG edition.
Both ordered new from Amazon.

 

One that has not been mentioned so far:
Chico Freeman - Destiny's Dance = CDr with standard, well-made insert and inlay.

Slightly off-topic: For a while Universal also used CDr's for Deluxe Editions that had sort of gone out of print.
I got Diana Ross's "Diana" and Paul Kossoff's "Back Street Crawler" DE's from Amazon about a year ago; not only were they CDr's, but they came in standard jewel cases instead of the three-panel digipaks. The booklet of the Diana DE was fine, the Kossoff was an amateurish copy job.

 

This is a disgrace. No other word for it. Thankful for this thread; then I know to continue with how I always bought OJC cds: second hand. Unless those cdr:s start creep onto the used market too .