Sometimes i would like a "warmer" sound. Any thoughts?

I really like my rig and i have no wish to upgrade. Now and again, however, i think i would like a warmer sound. My rig is very detailed and i enjoy that but some cds can sound harsh which is down to mastering i suspect. Is there a simple solution or should i just chill and live with what i have? I am not in any way unhappy but just sometimes i wonder if i ought to buy another set of speakers as well as keeping mine. They are superb after all. 2 sets of speakers? Stupid? What do you think.

 

A good excuse to own a second system on the warm side, if space and budget allows you.

 

You have a nice system. But experimenting is fun. You could always looks for some vintage speakers, (although not sure what the supply is like in France) that are on the warm side, like KLH or AR. Possibly experiment with some decent tube gear, or a tube buffer.

One of the reasons I prefer pretty much all old gear is because they tend to err, even when updated, on the warmer side. I'm not a fan of transparency or neutral.

 

That is not going to happen. Lol.

 

Try repositioning the speakers, you could be suffering from floor bounce cancellation. Lots, if not most speakers have this problem. Causes a depression in the 200-400 hertz region. Play around a bit with distance from walls, toe in, and tilt. Sometimes it just takes a small adjustment for a system to lock in. If this doesnt work, get that second system. Or, heck, get it anyways.

 

Get an equalizer to tame the offending frequencies.

 

I have had issues with overly bright recordings (mostly vinyl) and finally found the solution by adding a Schiit Loki into the analog chain. Now I can adjust to suit every bright (or dull) mastering. At $149, it is a remarkable little box.

 

Do you have the facility to install 1st reflection absorption panels on the side walls? (....profile mentions a 'great wife'!). They can make a signifiant impact on imaging and help with treble response.

 

You can never have too many pairs of speakers

The one review of your speakers I read described them as a bit cooler than neutral, with a forward/front row presentation.

It could very well be that recording/ mastering quality is to blame, but if you determine speakers are the culprit, you might try to audition some Spendors, or Graham Acoustics - speakers that sound mostly neutral to my ears, but warm compared to most modern designs. What's most uncommon is their ability to remain warm while providing plenty of detail and resolution. Some Tannoys and Wharfedales may also be worth a listen. If you listen on-axis, with speakers pointing directly at your head, you might benefit from positioning them to fire straight ahead, or with only a few degrees of toe. Some speakers can image very well with little or zero toe-in.

You might also look into one the Non-oversampling/non-filtered DACs that are all the rage lately. Allegedly they sound a little more like analog, but I've read that with some models, it's at the expense of detail.

 

I also recommend vintage designs. I wonder what the speaker designers of old knew that current speaker designers seem to have forgotten but speakers as a whole became a whole lot cooler sounding around 1995. Prior to that date most speakers were still warm sounding. After that date speaker voicing tilted the other way. That date also corresponds to the last time analog recordings (vinyl and cassette) still had significant market share.

 

I think the most cost effective solution would be to connect a tube buffer and inject some distortion that way. There are a number of threads here that address the solution. I've done the same a number of ways and it works well

 

Who hasn't ? The Loki is very intuitive. Even a 10-band graphic requires a lot of experimentation just to not completely ruin the overall sound. That said, I prefer the surgical approach of a multi-band graphic coz I know what I'm doing.

 

I have AR 3a's and AR 6's(the original design with the longer throw woofer and an inductor for the woofer). The AR 3a's were updated by Vintage AR. They have the HiVi Q1R tweeters and L-pads. Using the level controls, I can make them sound like original AR 3a's or add more mids and/or highs. I prefer to adjust them to sound on the warmer side. I posted this story somewhere else. I went into a high end HiFi shop here in Phoenix. They were demoing some current 'high end' system. I had to leave as it sounded horrible(to me). Shrieking sound.

 

Yup. I have friends with some very expensive modern gear and while it can sound good, just not my preference. My AR 3a's are like yours, with HiVi's. I like them as is, but prefer to use a pair of old JansZen 1-30 tweeter arrays instead. They just sound more natural and pleasing, giving something more or less like the AR1 set up. Mix in 50+ year old McIntosh electronics and for me it's the sound that has me playing music all day long.

 

I’ll make my long story short. I felt the same way about my system about a year ago as you describe your system. Systematically I changed (and sometimes went back to) every component in my system except for my speakers. It turns out that the speakers really are the start and end of the main part of your system’s sound.

It is not crazy at all to buy a second set. This gives you a no pressure way of experimenting with your sound, as you can always go back. Plus it’s just fun. I ended up loving my second set so much that I sold my first set. Turns out you can have it all!

 

I believe it sounds wonderful. The HiVi's are not the last word in refinement. LOL. They were, at the time, the most practical option. Now there is a guy named Chris on the Classic Speaker Pages website who can rebuild the 3/4" AR dome tweeters.

 

Yes, and I have the original tweeters for my 3a's, one of which is dead. I keep meaning to send them to him but things sound so great now that I wouldn't want to mess around with the speakers anyway.

 

"Warmer" is better...YMMV.

 

Thanks for your imputs. I appreciate it. Strangely i am listening to Easy Pieces by Lloyd Cole and i am thinking "thats the sound i want". Mastering has so much to do with it. I think i might plunge for some vintage speakers. Might be fun. x

 

I know what you mean. In the mid 90's I upgraded to a horrible sounding $10K system. I had a lot to learn about system matching and listening before purchasing.

 

Which albums do you find harsh? Personally, I have hard times to find harsh sounding music so I am a bit curious of such examples.

 

B&W DM 110,s go for £60 or so these days.
Stand mounted

Warm but not dull. EASY TO DRIVE.
PASSIVES are transparent

Active pre can add warmth. Not necessarily better. Hence passive superior but not warm. Something you crave.
The Mitchell Alecto,s were warm.
Its a synergy thing.
As you say some cds are bright.

 

Graham Audio BBC LS 5/8:

The BBC LS 5/8 design dates from the 1970's. Listen to naturalness of the speaking voice in this clip...it's spooky...like Giorgio Moroder has entered the room...even though it's a recording.

Modern speakers struggle with this kind of realism because they lack the warmth to recreate the natural overtones of the human voice.

The Graham Audio BBC LS 5/8 is a new speaker with modern drive units based on a vintage blueprint. It is possible therefore to have warmth in a modern speaker if the design is right.

 

not sure about graham. the ls5/9 I had was very neutral. wonderful though

 

Agreed with the above posts regarding speakers as likely the key variable to experiment with. Of course, amplification may lead you the same destination but it likely will be a more laboured, trying and ultimately less satisfactory end.

Ideas worth considering, depending on your own predilections, are:

-Optimising room set-up/ changing speaker location.

-Borrowing an amp or speaker set from a local dealer and seeing if they approximate and/or satisfy what you're after.

-If not adverse to tech, Dirac and similar are the latest and best DSP routes worth considering and offer free trials. A measurement mic is necesssary however a cheap option like Behringer will suffice and also provide you with insight as to what's happening in your listening space.

-Simpler still, download a free EQ and see if playing with response changes lends any insight. For example, you may find altering mids actually provides a more favourable response. Test tones and associated loudness is quick seat of the pants way of gauging response, followed by subjective listening tests. Like many audiophiles, EQ use might not be considered favourable but its use experimentally might provide some insight as to what approximate frequency response is favourable to your ears.

Most importantly, the pitfall to avoid is buying some vintage gear unheard (speakers, amp or otherwise) on reputation of it being warm or romantic sounding etc.

Lastly, I notice you use 650's - is this the type of sound you're after?