Word is Sony is happy with sales of their universal players. Nothing is certain with these large corporations but the 2018 models should retain hi-res disc playback. The "problem" with the X800 is the inability to play Dolby Vision 4K discs. Their TV's are finally getting a Dolby Vision update in January so they need new players to utilize this capability. The X800 is reaching the end of it's product life. Hence, that incredible Massdrop price.
I jumped on the $129 MassDrop deal. Why? About a year ago I purchased a Sony UHP-H1 Universal Player ($200) for listening to CD's and SACD's. At the time I insisted on a universal player with Analog Outs. After having the UHP-H1 for a while, I stopped using the Analog Outs and started using the Coxial Digital Out connected to my Schiit BiFrost DAC. So I guess I didn't need the Analog Outs after all! I'll move the UHP-H1 to a different room for video purposes and use the UBP-X800 for CD and SACD listening with my Schiit DAC using the Coaxial Digital Out. But most importantly, the UBP-X800 is wider than the UHP-H1 (17" vs 14.25"), and will therefore match better with my other components.
Yes, my teeny old Sony Blu-ray player came in an annoying teeny case with a pointed top. Who designed that stupidity? Not only could nothing stack on top of it, but the pointed top made it difficult to fit in the same shelf as my old VHS/DVD recorder. Which I should probably just unload, as I have no VHS tapes left to copy to DVD...
After putting the X800 through its paces, and now pretty thoroughly understanding all of its features, including what it will play properly (disc, stick, server - and what I've found does not jive completely with the owner's manual) I decided to order another one today, at the same discount price as the first one. The first one is in my family room HT; the next one is going into my main HT. The kicker was its ability to handle DSD (.dsf and .dff) files without issue, including (in my test cases) streaming .dsf files. The ability to play DVD-A is a bonus. Performance-wise I like how fast it starts up (instantly) and how fast one can navigate the menus - compared to the older Sonys the X800 is replacing. After a very short learning curve, I've found the GUI to be much better than before. Sure there's still a few things on the "hope for that on the next firmware upgrade" list - but I'm neither holding my breath, nor needing to wait and see to make today's decision. Jeff
I'm playing what I believe is an SACD-only disc (Carpenter's The Singles 1969-1973, SA-CD SHM, UIGY-15001) right now with my UHP-H1 / Schiit BiFrost combo and it plays perfectly. So yes, I intend to do the same with the UBP-X800 / Schiit BiFrost combo. Why, is there something I'm missing?
I think your D/A converter doesn't have an HDMI input and the X-800 as far as I know will only output SACD's DSD via HDMI. If you have the BiFrost and the X-800 linked via digital coaxial or optical I'm afraid you're not getting DSD. Could you please tell us what the BiFrost shows when playing your SACD disc? Maybe 176.4/24, 88.2/24, 44.1/24 or other?
The BiFrost does not have an HDMI input, just coax, optical and USB. Therefore I’m going coax from the UHP-H1 to the BiFrost. And no, the BiFrost does not have a display so I don’t know what sampling rate it’s using. If the UBP-X800 only outputs DSD over HDMI, do we know if that’s also true for the UHP-H1?
Even if they did, the Bifrost DAC, as far as I can tell from the reviews and manual, does not decode DSD. Whatever the DAC is receiving must be PCM. If BIGGER Dave is getting audio from the coaxial output while spinning an SACD, the most likely explanation is that he is playing the Red Book CD layer of a hybrid SACD. Due to Sony’s licensing restrictions, coaxial and optical outputs are conventionally muted when playing the DSD layer of an SACD. DSD playback from SACD is only supported over HDMI due to licensing restrictions as a rule. The manuals for the UDP-X800 and its predecessor aren’t particularly helpful at describing how these players handle SACD playback other than describing the menu options for selecting whether the CD / stereo DSD / multi DSD parts of hybrid SACDs should be played. I guess it is possible for the players to be performing DSD to PCM conversion to provide audio from the coaxial out, but it isn’t the norm. I’ve seen modifications to SACD players to enable this, but never as a standard feature. Sony do odd things sometimes, though. One firmware update for the early fat PS3 enabled a DTS output from multichannel SACDs from the optical output. Didn’t last long...
You are correct on this but if you do use the HDMI you do get DSD output from a SACD on the 800 my DAC shows it. I think it's clear the Sony looks for the output/input relationship and puts out the signal on that.
I've just proved my own point there and probably solved a mystery why I thought early on I wasn't getting a DSD signal via the 800 into my Bryston. I used the SHM-SACD of Countdown To Ecstasy by Steely Dan-this is a single layer SACD. If I have my Bryston set to SPDIF input 1 (which is coax) when I load the disc it will output even though the text says quite clearly DSD 2 channel so it is obviously converting to PCM internally however what is interesting is that the sampling rate on the Bryston is 44Khz if I change the input to HDMI it will continue to output PCM (as the DSD interlock doesn't come on) but the sampling rate is increased to 176Khz. If you load the disc when the DAC is set to HDMI you will get DSD output as the interlock shows and of course if you switch to the coax you lose the signal as the machine is already outputting DSD and the coax can't process that. When I was setting up trying out the machine early on I was puzzled why I wasn't getting the DSD interlock on but I probably had the input on SPDIF1 when I loaded a disc. If you put on a hybrid disc the 800 quite clearly makes no attempt to read the redbook layer -as you recreate the effect above it quite clearly is only set up (speed of reading?) to convert to PCM internally if your output can't handle DSD. The only way you can hear a redbook layer is by setting up at the menu option.
Is your DAC showing 88.2 / 176.4K when you get audio from the coax out then? That would be consistent with DSD to PCM conversion taking place.
Sorry misread now edited...only on HDMI input for some reason it only shows 44K on the coax input....which I don't understand.
I'm impressed that you get anything from the coaxial output playing the SACD layer as the norm is for the non HDMI digital outputs to be muted due to Sony's own licensing restrictions. I suppose if Sony wish to bend or break their own rules for their own players they can! My Oppo mutes the optical and coaxial outputs and the manual states that it is due to licensing restrictions. So does my older Sony all in one player. Why do you only get only 44K over coaxial? My best guess there is that Sony want to restrict SACD copying and so deliberately restrict the output to no more than 44K. This is analogous to how the digital outputs behave when DVD Audio and Blu Ray are played. Again, my Oppo manual describes all of the permutations but, as an example, if I am playing a DVD Audio or Blu Ray with 96K 24 bit audio, the optical and coaxial out only output 48K 16 bit, according to the display on my amplifier. If I play the same music ripped to a USB stick, however, the full resolution is output from the coaxial / optical output. There have been manufacturers who have broken these rules. Earlier Oppo players were reported as allowing 192K / 24 bit output from DVD Audio, though the later players don't allow this and it is the sort of thing that could easily be disabled in a firmware update. This has been known to happen, one example being how the ability to play home made SACDR discs was disabled by firmware update in the Oppo 103/105 series players. Coaxial / optical outputs cannot handle the uncompressed / losslessly compressed surround formats, but in most cases the player will output a lossy Dolby Digital or DTS signal to allow backwards compatibility with older amplifiers. What happens if you try to play the surround layer of an SACD on the Sony? Again, the norm is for no output from coaxial / optical outputs, but as per my previous post, Sony have been known to break their own rules with one firmware version of early PS3 consoles allowing multichannel SACD to be downconverted to DTS. I'd be interested to find out how the X800 behaves in this respect. Why do you get 176K via HDMI? If you choose to output PCM rather than DSD over HDMI (there is a menu item for this), or if your amplifier / DAC reports that it cannot decode DSD, or if the HDMI handshaking gets confused (which is probably what happens if you start listening using the coaxial input and then switch to HDMI as you describe) then your player will default to playing PCM. As HDMI is encrypted, higher PCM sampling rates are "allowed".
I think your summary is almost certainly correct. I will have a look at a SACD multi-channel disc and see what happens-it's no use to me as I only do stereo as does the Bryston BDA-3 but I should be able to tell from the combination of the Sony text and Bryston display what is happening.
Until the apps stream 4k, not interested. Looks to be a good player for the price, especially the massdrop. But why doesn't the Vudu app stream UHD ?
Had this player for over a month now. The last two movies and one Blu-Ray audio disc have frozen up around the 30 minute mark. Had to unplug the unit as it was unresponsive, more than likely this ones going back.
I’ve had problems with the occasional Blu-ray playback, Doom Watch the other week and The Two Towers last night (both discs are new, and play in another player). Other Blurays have played fine and so have all DVDs. With these two I get a completely blank screen when I try and play them. For the life of me I can’t figure this one out.
Yep, I verified it last night. And Two Towers is an old title so I would think it wouldn’t have issues, go figure.
