Speakers for 300B SET Amps

...and vice versa.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no. The De Capo's still sound far better with the Kit 1 than they did with the Manley Mahi mono-blocks that I had before.

 

It simply isn't a good match, you are hearing neither component at its best but I'm sure you already know that.

 

Hi Rebbi,

I've got a set of the Orca's in the Birch Cabinet. If you are looking for a single driver speaker, I'd definitely recommend the Omegas or a MarkAudio driver system over them. The Orcas aren't bad by any means, and what Clark can get out of that little fostex driver is astounding, but the Omega or MarkAudio drivers perform better in my listening rooms.

 

Yes, agreed. It's by no means a terrible match, but I think I can do better with that amp.
By the way, it's interesting that Reference 3A recommends their Antique Sound Labs 300B SET for use with the De Capo.
http://divertech.com/asl1005dti.html

 

Spoke to one of the guys at Zu yesterday, just for the heck of it. Seems the Omen is about to go from version Mk. I Revision B to Mk. II. Would any of you seriously consider Zu? I know their speakers tend to be sort of polarizing. But they offer a 60 day trial and even pay for return shipping if you're not happy.

 

Thanks for that tip, seikosha. I am very interested in the Omega's... probably the 7 XRS if I can swing it, financially. The simplicity of not having to deal with a subwoofer definitely appeals to me. Louis is a great guy from my conversations with him. (So is Clark!)

 

Given your experience would you recommend a 300B based amp for the De Capo?

 

Perhaps a parallel 300 B with a little more juice – I just think that the De Capo requires more power to really wake it up. But again, I must emphasize that the De Capo does not sound in any way "bad" with the Kit 1: imaging is fabulous, the midrange is beautiful and (especially with the much better power cord that I just acquired) frequency extension and especially low-end "slam" are startlingly good. That said, I would probably go with some kind of more powerful tube amp.

 

Some time ago there was a period when it was difficult to get the AZs built, but that is no longer the case. Audio Note is perfectly happy to sell any of its gear in States. You'll likely see more attention paid to the AZ models in the next year.

 

Dave - I think the AZ's are a good deal especially when you factor in not needing to buy a rather pricey stand. The one thing missing perhaps would be a nice center channel - AZ threes in front with a center and AX Twos in back and that would be pretty kickarse. I am currently running the AN E front and AX Two rear for home theater and it's pretty excellent - really rather surprised - but no center channel or sub - even then it's better than a lot of home theater. I then switch the cables at the speaker end for two channel listening. It's a pity there is no best of both worlds amplifying unit where you can get great 2 channel and home theater without constant changing of wires. But it gets me off the couch I suppose.

 

Dave,
Do you know of anyone in the US who actually stocks them? Thanks.

 

Oh, and any thoughts on Zu Omen?

 

If his budget tops out around 2k I think they and most altec, in good shape, are out of his price range. Other then the Model 14 and 15. The Model 14 is a great speaker. For what it's worth I am a big fan of high efficiency speakers and youve pretty much covered the bases for them under 2k. Klipsch Cornwalls, Chorus and Forte (and if you get a chance listen to the RF-7 ii they're very impressive, but I haven't made up my mind about them yet); Tekton Lores and the Lore S (if he's still making it, is a phenomenal sounding speaker), the Altec Model 14 and Valencias (if you can find a good pair near you), Omega Speakers, and of course vintage JBL is nice too if you can find a 030 or 001 load out. Well those are my faves in that price range.

As for honkiness, personally a lot of people make a big deal of it online. In my experience, outside of the heresy where its more a hump than honk, good horn speakers only honk or ring when over driven. If you like to blast your stereo then you might experience it. The real advantage of speakers like Klipsch and Altec is that they're super dynamic and sound great at moderate volumes with low power amps (especially tubes, its what the originals were designed with). Put 150 watts into one and you'll get all kinds of unpleasantness out.

 

Sailfree,
Thanks so much for the thoughts!
I found some other threads here on Zu and it seems that a lot of people like them with SET amps. That's a good sign. I spoke with Geritt at Zu the other day. They are shipping the Omen Mk. II which has a lot of upgrades and changes from the Mk. I Rev. B... sounds like it's a more refined speaker overall. The fact that you get 60 days to try them and they pay return shipping if you're not happy is unparalleled as far as I know... that may tip the scales for me.
I looked at hifishark.com (amazing site, by the way) and yes, you can get Altec 19's on US Audio Mart and eBay. The problem is that the condition of what's out there is pretty variable and those puppies are pretty huge, physically - I think they'd be a non-starter in my house, especially since my listening room is used for other things, as well.
I think that the single-driver approach, or the wide-bander with supplemental tweeter or woofer approach, makes a lot of sense. My De Capo's haven't sold yet (hey, let me know if you're interested!) but when they do, I'll know how much I have to spend and can make some choices from there. I'm excited to be engaged in this process!

 

No one really stocks any of the speakers. Too many variations, although the AZs have fewer than the ones with multiple levels and 20 veneer choices. (The E has 600 flavors. Baskin Robbins and Heinz, eat your hearts out! Not.)

 

So they just order as needed from the UK?

 

I think what Dave is saying is they have demo models - if you like it and want it then you can place your order. The AN E for example comes in 20 veneer choices and many different versions - so maybe you audition the AN E/Spe but maybe you decide you want to higher efficiency model and so they have a big real wood binder where you don't just get to see the sample veneer picture - it is filled with actual wood cuts so you can see the veneer you want to order. Big heavy binder and you can choose which one you want - place the order and they build it for you. There is no way a dealer could possibly stock 600 variants (and the AN J has nearly as many options - even the K has what 3 versions and all the finishing options).

Some dealers may have some stock - Here in Hong Kong I had the choice of AN E/Lexus Hemp - they had two pairs in two different colours - AN E/Spe in I believe 2 colours and AN E/Spx HE Hemp Alnico (their demonstrator model) which I am trying to save for before someone else snatches it up. They appear to sell their demo speakers quickly as every months I usually stop by for a listen and they're gone replaced by something new. The had the AN E Lexux Signature with external crossovers - gone. They had several AX Twos but all have sold by the looks of it. Another dealer in Hong Kong carries the Zero and level One products and had AX Twos. I also saw a second hand AZ Two so they are sold here.

Most companies offer 2-4 colour options (some only one) and it's just a single version of the loudspeaker. So a dealer can stock them and even if they don't the distributor could probably warehouse a good number. Take the B&W 805 as an example - you have three colour choices and there is one version of the speaker. You can stock all three of them sell one then place an order to replace the one you sell. But the AN K has three versions and 20 finishes of each - so 60 versions of the speaker (and not counting another option to lacquer them or not). So another 60 possibilities. There is certainly a DIY ideology behind Audio Note (except they make it for you). But to be blunt - when you're spending $10,000 on a loudspeaker why would you want to settle for 3 colour choices? I am probably fine with it but not everyone. I saw a picture of an AN E in Bristish Racing Green and the picture looked rather awesome - I live in Hong Kong so I personally would like to see a Hot Pink Hello-KitE. But I am a little twisted.

Some people want their AZ speakers to look like this

 

A vote for Klipsch Lascala. Highly efficient with lots of dynamics at 1-3 watts amps. I never got the bad rap about horn "honk". To me they are big, lively, colorful in a good way, transparent and again highly dynamic. Other speakers sound dead to me. Find a place that has some that you can hear for yourself and make your own conclusions. There are other choices for high efficiency-Omega, some Spendor, Tannoy, DeVore, Lowther, etc.

 

I thought that the Lore Reference was quite good - astonishingly good for the price. Big, exciting sound, great tone. Huge sound stage. Imaging a little vague but I didn't have much time to play with positioning as I had to borrow them for a limited time. Haven't heard the Lore S but I'm sure it's great with those SEAS drivers. Tekton is definitely in the running.

I see that the going rate for used La Scala is around $1500, which is very reasonable. The only problem with classics like the Altec 19 and the La Scala is that they are physically too large for my room. And the La Scala's weigh something like 170 pounds each, so shipping would be a bear. Many online sellers insist on local pickup, too. But thanks for the great suggestions. I really do need either a standmount or a small-ish floorstander to fit my room.

 

I was talking about stock - sealed goods waiting for a buyer. When there are 2 or 3 options, stocking is a practical, sensible option. When there are dozens, scores or hundreds, it's simply not possible. Obviously a dealer has to have demo gear in order for customers to make informed choices. The only AN speakers where stocking would work would be the entry level 'D' versions of the K, J and E which are made in black ash. Period.

Ideally, demos and stock would be two completely separate things. It takes hundreds of hours for an AN speaker to fully 'bed in', thus, to hear them properly, one needs to hear a pair that's been playing for quite a while. (Before people start with "break in is a myth", I'd like to point out that I have listened to a shed load of speakers go through this over the last 13 years.) Of course, people get impatient once they've decided and push to buy the demos, so . . .

"DIY ideology"? Mmmm...no. In DIY, one either follows a design, staying as close or wandering as far from the specifications as desired, or strikes out on one's own going in whatever direction with whatever parts one desires. The Wild West. Bespoke suits would be a better analogy - pick a material and a design and be prepared to wait a while.

 

I know Soundhounds was lending out their J to people who order an E to satisfy the wait times. I would think the lower priced stuff would sell in more numbers.

I have been looking at turntables - very close on the Roksan Radius 5 but I decided to buy the dealer's lone TT2 (not deluxe) but new tonearm 1 and IQ1. Sometimes it's about taking what is available - last time I had to wait 10 months for a TT2 so while it's not as good as the new models - at least down the line it can be upgraded. I'm a pretty easy buyer on looks - that's the colour you got - fine by me. Kind of a red wood colour. Finally going to be back into vinyl!! - It's been four years! But listening to the Roksan (such a sexy looking thing and cart also based on Goldring) and spinning one unfamiliar Japanese recording and it was an I must get back into this. Somehow ship my vinyl from Canada to HK (nightmare) and my present phono stage is the "Little Rat" a whopping $49 phono stage from Radio Shack that takes a 9Volt battery. But you do what you have to do. I was debating going M6 with no more vinyl and sticking with digital or going M3 phono and turntable and in the end I gave my head a shake - the choice was pretty obvious.

My analogy was not the best - but I was thinking for the way the units are tiered and the fact that they were in the kits business. Kits not DIY.

 

Only prob with LaScalas is they're not full range starting at around 50Hz. They are very lean sounding. That "liveliness" you refer to IS the horn coloration. Some people like that. I did for a long time. They're great for low volume jazz, acoustic & classical type music. So if that's your taste, then perfect.

 

My tastes in music pretty much fit your list except for live( mostly)Grateful Dead shows. I think the bass is good enough even for that. I probably wouldn't care for the bass reproduction if I listened to heavier stuff. The liveliness that I hear whether it is horn coloration or whatever it is makes music exciting and dynamic. There is a lot of that excitement available even with 2-3 watts. I think your observation underscores the point that because music pleasure is subjective someone should always audition speakers,etc, for oneself before making decisions.

 

That liveliness is also dynamics. Especially noticeable with low powered tube gear. Newer LaScalas have a lots less "coloration" and is easy to clean up the older ones. Good horn speakers are hard to beat