Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

According to what I've read, the idea came to Lucas between Empire and Jedi as a means to quickly and easily tie up the "other" plot point raised by Yoda in Empire. He was initially planning on a 9 episode saga but decided to end the episode numbers with Jedi and had to tie up that loose end. He felt the quickest and easiest way to tie it up was to assign the "other" to an existing character rather than introducing a new character late in the trilogy. He took a look around, saw that Leia showed signs of Force sensitivity and assigned the "other" to her. So, it wasn't a matter of Leia's Force sensitivity foreshadowing her kinship to Luke. It was the other way around. She retroactively became the best choice to be the "other" Yoda referred to, because she demonstrated Force sensitivity in Empire.

 

It's a saying that goes back at least half a century. He shouldn't have to worry about political correctness run amok.

 

Alrighty - you're probably right! Been a while since I read "Secret History" so I don't recall the details of that side of things!

I know that GL scuttled plans for a bigger 9-part saga and crammed a lot of Episodes 7-9 possibilities into "ROTJ" because he was fed up with "Star Wars" - though he would later deny that he ever intended a 9-part series, despite all the quotes from him on the subject!

 

Lucas changed his plans repeatedly. At one point, he even mentioned a 12 films series.

The source for the plans at the time of ESB is producer Gary Kurtz. He confirmed the thing about Han Solo (and apparently Vader) dying at the end of Episode VI. Luke was still to complete his Jedi training, while Leia, mourning Solo, would have returned to rule her remaining people in another area of the galaxy, maybe to return in another episode. Luke's sister would have been introduced around Episode VII, then he would have met and defeated the Emperor around IX.
It isn't clear whether the prequels would have been made after Episode IX or during the hiatus between IV-VI and VII-IX. Plans were still vague over I-III, but Kurtz mentions a stand-alone Episode I that could have been about the origins of the Jedi order, thousands of years before, and an Anakin arc that would have taken one or two films.

As he split with Lucas after ESB, Kurtz is very critical of ROTJ, that he finds too derivate and lazy, especially the Death Star return.

What's interesting is how progressively Lucas decided that the center of his saga would end up being Vader and how he realized that he was the most fascinating figure. In the original SW, he's supposed to be this much despised free agent within the hierarchy of the Empire, while it's Tarkin who's in charge of the operations. Then, with ESB, he's the second in command, and the real figure of evil. Vader's redemption then gets mixed up with the fall of the Empire and the natural conclusion of the story, up to the point I think that it's Anakin who is the Jedi returning in ROTJ. And then, Lucas devotes his other trilogy to the rise and fall of Anakin. That's where the dynastic stuff started to grow for the audience. Vader took over the entire series, which brought some unity to the story, but wasn't the original intent.

That's also why it's that hard for any writer to continue the story without Vader or his legacy. The character embodies the saga, and it's hard to find a new villain that wouldn't be derivative in some way.

 

Reading all that just makes you think what an amazing second trilogy we could have had in the 80's if Lucas had hired some decent writers and directors and threw himself into it fully as a producer. I was never a big fan of ROTJ, I find it frustrating as it just seems like a lazy rush job to tie everything up when there was so much more to explore.

 

Gary Kurtz gives a lot of interviews, and the one that's commonly quoted is from 2010 or 2011.

Did ‘Star Wars’ become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back [Updated]

However, the most precise one was given just after The Phantom Menace was released in 2000:

Original Star Wars Producer Gary Kurtz Speaks

"Episode one was going to be about the origin of the Jedi and the killing off of the Sith Lords and much more kind of archetypal, political aspects."
Looks like they still can do it, but this time as a Star Wars Story stand alone film.

Then, there's a very detailed interview about his entire career. Part 4 is where the prequels and sequels got discussed:

An Interview with Gary Kurtz - IGN - Page 4

And here's a somewhat comprehensive article over the abandoned stories.

The secret history of the Star Wars movies we never got to see… and one that could still happen | GamesRadar+

Ep. I was indeed about the fall of the Sith and the start of the Jedi order.
Ep. II would have focused on Obi-Wan.
Ep. III would have been Anakin's big moment.

Episodes X and XI could have been stand-alone stories focusing on droids and wookies.

Also, it looks like Padmé wasn't supposed to be that passive in the original draft for ROTS. She didn't die from some kind of consumption that came out of nowhere, she would have been the one who realizes that Anakin is falling to the Dark Side, the one who would have sown the seeds for the Rebellion against Palpatine, and the one who was almost ready to finish Anakin off on Mustafar, before dying from a broken heart.

 

I think that having episode I be the origins of the Jedi would have been weird.

From a narrative standpoint it'd be a bit like having a trilogy set in the American Civil War and then Episode I is set in Ancient Mesopotamia. (Obi Wan mentions in episode 1 how the Jedi had been around for more than 1000 generations.)

 

Having seen the movie four times, I now think the Canto Bight scenes are integral to Finn's story arc. I call the sequence "The Last Temptation of Finn." The Force Awakens establishes him as a sort of conscientious objector fleeing from the First Order, but he's not yet committed to the Resistance when he, Han and Chewie infiltrate Starkiller Base. He's there primarily to rescue Rey, who was only taken prisoner after he effectively abandoned her at Maz's castle. Finn could be motivated by romantic feelings for her, or maybe he has a guilty conscious over leaving her side at Maz's castle.

At the beginning of The Last Jedi, he is still uncommitted to the Resistance but remains motivated by his need to protect Rey from danger. The Canto Bight mission presents him with temptation, a beautiful, opulent setting that's far removed from the grim situation the Resistance currently finds itself in. He's also wearing the tracking device that will lead Rey to Canto Bight instead of certain doom. If Rose wasn't with him, it's possible he would've slipped away unnoticed into the crowd, and that could have been the end of his story. After all, why go back to the on-the-run life of the Resistance when places like Canto Bight exist? (This is not unlike the Las Vegas casino scene in the first Percy Jackson movie, which I just recently watched with my daughter. Las Vegas turns out to be the Lair of the Lotus Eaters, and it nearly derails the hero's quest with its intoxicating temptations. Canto Bight is the Lair of the Lorus Eaters In Space. Is it a coincidence that the master codebreaker they're after wears a red rose brooch on his lapel that kind of represents a-- wait for it-- lotus flower?)

Instead of following that path, Rose appeals to Finn's sense of morality and justice, and maybe he sees his own Stormtrooper past reflected in the slave children tending to the fathiers. We meet DJ, the amoral, politically-unaffiliated codebreaker completely unconcerned with the First Order and the Resistance. DJ represents to Finn the type of person he might one day become if he follows this path. DJ is one path, Rose is the other, like the devil and angel on your shoulder, battling for your attention. As they travel back to the Resistance fleet, DJ gives Finn some advice: "Live free. Don't join." Finn's expression indicates he hasn't completely dismissed the notion yet, even at this late point in the story.

Later, Finn is forced off the fence when DJ betrays them to the First Order and endangers the fleeing transports. He's possibly motivated by the same guilty conscience that developed after endangering Rey on Takodana, only now it extends to the entire Resistance. As he defeats Captain Phasma, he finally identifies himself as "Rebel scum." On Crait, he gives a pep talk to the assembled troops before they head out to the battlefield. And he even attempts a hero's suicide by flying his Ski Speeder headlong towards the still-charging Battering Ram Canon.... only to be twarted by Rose, the angel on his shoulder, who may have developed her own guilty conscience after she helped put him on this path.

In other words, I like Canto Bight! It presents a fork in the road to one of the main characters, and helps him grow into a hero and leader that the Resistance currently finds in short supply. And it's totally in keeping with Star Wars'mythological roots.

 

Ok ......... the scene is integral to his story/character.

The thing that irks me most about the series of films is that they seem [the producers/writers/directors] to think they need this type of casino scene [with strange looking creatures] as per the other movies...................Empire didn't need them.

 

Empire had Cloud City, which offered the illusion of sanctuary as well as a test of character for Luke. It was perhaps more integral to the plot than Canto Bight, but I'm arguing that Canto Bight offered up its own test of Finn.

 

I understand the Canto Bites scene is George Lucas' favorite.

 

It makes sense. For better or worse it's the closest to present day George's sensibilities. The vibe is very much like something out of AOTC.

 

The Forbes' saga of Rob Cain's vs. Scott Mendelson continues....

China Strikes Back At 'Last Jedi' With Lowest Gross For A Mega-Budget Movie Since 2013

Can The $1.3B-Grossing 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Recover After Bombing In China?

Eventually this will end in an elaborate 30 minute Lightsaber battle on Mustafar resulting in Rob Cain transformed into Darth Trollus....Who will eventually then face his son in a lightsaber duel on Bespin 24 years later...

 

A correction to the Canto Bight stuff I posted above: Finn does NOT have Rey's tracking beacon with him. I forgot that he gave it to Poe before leaving on the mission, symbolically cutting ties with the Resistance and making the temptation of Canto Bight that much more real for him.

 

Gary must have really disliked The Force Awakens then. Is he on record regarding his opinion of that film?

I had no problem with Death Star II in Return Of The Jedi, especially given its "fully operational" twist (and that I was 8 year old), but Death Star III was just dumb, and I know I'm not the only one to think that.

 

I really wish they had done what was originally planned for Jedi, Which were TWO death Stars, with the Vader/Luke/Palpatine stuff happening on a lava planet called Had Abbadon, Which was supposed to be the capital of the Empire. If I remember correctly, Han and Leia's mission was going to be breaking into one of the two death Stars, taking it over and then use the super Lazer of one against the other, and then ultimately used it to blow up Had Abbadon. Instead we got...Ewoks and another fly into the belly of the Death Star to blow it up ending.

 

I believe Had Abaddon became Coruscant.

I would have preferred no Death Star. The thrown room scene could have taken place on Had Abaddon, the planet that was once the home of the Republic Senate. Occupied by the Empire, it would have been an appropriate setting for a final showdown between the Rebels and the Empire as the Rebels attempt to take back the planet and overthrow the Empire. I read somewhere that Lucas wanted a big boom at the end of the film, and he wasn’t comfortable with the Rebels destroying a planet, hence the second Death Star.

I’m fine with the Ewoks. Sorry, but I am. They’re totally in keeping with Yoda’s message: “Size matters, not. Judge me by my size, do you? And where you should not.” And the way in which they are presented is very similar to the way in which Yoda is presented, seemingly innocent, goofy and harmless but later revealed to be very powerful.

 

Oh, brother. Somebody put together a fan edit that removes all of the female characters save for Leia whose part is edited to remove any scolding of Poe. The edit clocks in at 46 minutes. Rian Johnson and some of the cast are having fun with it on Twitter.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi cast dunks on sexist fan edit that cut out women - Polygon

 

Concept art of Padme holding a dagger on Mustafar.

 

I would say it's probably more to do with if he died on Canto Bight then Poe could track Rey. He was still concerned for Rey. Finns character in TLJ was the least desirable of all characters with Rose being next, Finn was better in TFA because we didn't know what to expect now in TLJ he just seems silly with no purpose.

 

I believe we're both right...Had Abbadon was going to be the capital of the Empire, but it was also supposed to be a lava planet. So eventually, the concept was split into two. One because Mustafar and the other Coruscant.

 

Yes, we are both right.

Had Abbadon was actually a proposed name for the Imperial capital—later identified as Coruscant—which appeared in early drafts of Return of the Jedi. It was meant to be a city-planet orbited by two Death Stars under construction, and the Green Moon, later renamed Jus-Endor (which would later become Endor). Its lowest levels were meant to be home to Emperor Palpatine's throne room, surrounded by a lake of lava, around which Luke Skywalker would duel Darth Vader. These concepts were ultimately separated into the Emperor's throne room aboard Death Star II and Mustafar.

Abbadon is similar to the Hebrew word abaddon, meaning "destruction."
Had Abbadon

 

I think this movie is where I begin to walk away from the series. TFA was the return to form all us 1st gen fans were craving and Im happy it happened. TLJ ties up a few loose character ends and begins the transition to the next era. I felt little to no connection with anyone in TLJ and certainly felt no "magic." I will follow thru on the current trilogy to see how we wrap things up but not actually sure if I will feel the desire to see it on the big screen, which will be a first. Actually, if it weren't for my interest in seeing the resolution of Luke then I likely would've walked out of a movie for the first time in my life.

Im happy with what I know and not really sure I have any interest in learning anything new from the Star Wars universe at this point.

 

I still like TLJ but this made me laugh.

 

Home video announcement due any day now...