Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

What I made of it is that there are some very mentally unstable people out there. Whomever is running that page needs serious professional help.



Also, warning to anyone that Googles that page, the fool actually put potential spoilers for AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR up on that page. Chances are it's fake, but just in case it's legit and you wanna remain unspoiled, you've been warned.

Trust me, just don't google that page. As Ben Kenobi would say, It's a hive of scum and villainy.

 

Seriously you can see Threepio scampering away as fast as he can while they're talking about how only Laura Dern can fly the ship.

 

Rian Johnson's rip-off of the Hugo award-winning episode "33" of the new Battlestar Galactica was writ large on the screen of The Last Jedi. "33" was the first proper episode of the new Galactica, coming right after the miniseries. Not some later-season episode that fewer people saw. "33" was widely known and applauded. Johnson was ripping off the very show that in its earlier incarnation had been accused of ripping off Star Wars.

And speaking of television, The Last Jedi is written as if it were a season of episodes - then stripped down and slammed together into one 2-hour slot. Without the concept of a singular story that builds through three or four acts, the film becomes tiresome - the side stories do nothing, and the central stories are repetitive with duplicate conversations and duplicate battles.

The part of TLJ that works a little bit is the part on the island that picks up immediately where The Force Awakens left off, with Luke and Rey finding their way together. And, concurrently with those events, the deepening relationship between Rey and her adversary or possible soulmate. But there is not quite enough time given to Luke and Rey, and the ample time given to Rey and Kylo is squandered by repetition, at times becoming little more than teens texting eachother. The relationship between Rey and Kylo should have been epic - Shakespearian. You do that by treating the characters like young adults. Instead they were depicted as tweens, right down to the cliche of a parent walking in on them during an intimate moment and reacting with shock. Therefore it does not surprise me that Daisy Ridley reportedly burst into tears of gratitude when JJ announced he would come back to do things properly for the third film.

We are essentially in the same situation we found ourselves (the royal we) when hack director Brett Ratner took over the X-Men film series for The Last Stand and ruined it until Bryan Singer came back in and saved the day. Singer had an avantage that we do not have - a time travel element to the X-Men story with which he was able to undo the damage that Brett Ratner had done. JJ won't be able to do that, but, since generally speaking nothing happened in The Last Jedi in terms of character development, JJ can still bring things forward to save the day.

Hmmm... Brett Ratner: "The Last Stand". Rian Johnson: "The Last Jedi"... May Johnson get as soundly kicked out on his butt as Ratner did.

 

^ "33" and The Last Jedi bear similarity only as far as using hyperspace tracking as a plot device. Apart from that, they are hardly similar at all, IMO. In fact, TLJ mainly riffs on the hyperdrive issues that made much of TESB's storyline possible. In Empire, the Falcon's faulty hyperdrive facilitates a chase movie where the Rebels have the enemy hot on their heels; in Last Jedi, the First Order's hyperspace tracking facilitates a chase movie where the Resistance has the enemy hot on their heels.

 

It doesn't carry the entire film, no, but the premise that the First Order can inexplicably jump to wherever the rebel fleet jumps to not only sets up the situation the fleet remains in for the rest of the film, but also is what prompts Finn's useless side-story. And the rag tag fleet running out of fuel was straight out of Galactica as well.

Unlike Empire it is not a chase movie - the First Order is plodding along slowly behind the rebel fleet purely as a plot contrivance, to keep that part of the story frozen in amber while Finn and Poe's b-stories occur.

About that inexplicable tracking - I can imagine that at some point in the story crafting process it provided the actual, logical reason why Laura Dern's character could not tell anyone how they planned to escape. It was because they had no idea how the First Order was getting their position relayed to them - they may have feared a spy or traitor was on board. Then the idea that there could be a spy or traitor on board was dropped, but Dern's absurd decision not to tell anyone her plan remained.

 

But isn't that how miltary works? The resistance is an organized military organization complete with leaders by rank (generals, admirals, captains, etc) The top brass US military certainly don't tell everyone what the whole plan is, they tell everyone what their part is and everyone is to do their part so that the overall plan works. This is what Dern told Poe, get to your station and do your part, which is exactly what he should have done. It wasn't his business to know the core plan, but to follow the orders of his commanding officer, whether he liked it or not. I've read a lot of posts of people saying she should have just told him the plan but that's just not how military works. Poe not doing his part ended up almost dooming the entire rebellion.

 

Matthew Vaughn really saved the franchise. And then of Singer's two follow-ups only one is really great.

 

First time I saw it I though of BG but I don't think it's the same. If they had been jumping and then being followed that would be a rip-off but they only jump once so the stories are very different. I guess it's still a space chase but then that isn't a unique idea in films anyway, there are thousands of chase films be it on road, sea or space.

 

Aren't you describing "33" here, to some extent? The idea of a traitor in their midst, or enemy infiltration, facilitating the FTL tracking? I thought you were critical of the existing similarities, not sure why you'd suggest more of them like it's a good idea.

 

The notion that Holdo didn’t tell anybody about the plan is a misnomer. There was an operation that involved a multitude of escape pods flying to Crait and to specific location in Crait, the abandoned Rebel base. That’s, at the very least, a multitude of pilots who needed to know where they were going. So apparently, Holdo told a multitude of people about the plan. She just didn’t tell the insubordinate Poe Dameron who had just been demoted for disobeying a direct order and getting a bunch of people killed. Holdo was right when she told Poe that he was “the last thing we need right now.”

Holdo is a far more effective character that Ackbar and far more deserving of the sacrifice made to save the Resistance. Ackbar’s only claim to fame is “It’s a trap!” Fans tend to overlook “All craft, prepare to retreat.” He was prepared to retreat at the Battle if Endor only to be dissuaded by one of his subordinates, Lando. Holdo, on the other hand, saved the Resistance by sacrificing herself, which wouldn’t have been necessary if Poe had simply followed orders. Holdo and Leia’s plan would have worked and would have made Holdo’s self-sacrifice unnecessary if Poe, Finn and Rose hadn’t gone behind her back and screwed up the plan. If Poe, Finn and Rose hadn’t hatched this plan, and if Finn and Rose hadn’t brought in the deceitful DJ, the plan would have succeeded without Holdo’s self-sacrifice.

 

You must really love this movie. I've never seen someone bend over backwards as much as you have to defend every criticism of TLJ while also using it as an opportunity to compare it favorably to the Original Trilogy. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

I'm not going to dissect your argument because I don't think there's any point in doing so; you like what you like, I like what I like, etc.

Out of curiosity, how do you rank all of the SW movies, including the prequels?

 

It’s interesting that you seem to take exception to my love of the film. I’m not bending over backwards. I’m participating in a discussion of the film. There are number of members who regularly criticize the film in this thread without being questioned as to why they feel the need to routinely post their views. For the record, I didn’t reference the original trilogy in the post you quoted. The post you quoted was my first post in this thread in nearly two weeks. After posting for the first time in nearly two weeks, I’m questioned as to why I’m posting a favorable view of the film.

How I rank the films at this point.

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Last Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones

 

For fun, my current ranking

Empire
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith (dodges tomato thrown at him)
The Last Jedi and Return of the Jedi (tie)
The Force Awakens
Rogue One
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

 

As it turns out, I did reference the original trilogy in the post you quoted. However, it was a reference to Return of the Jedi, not the trilogy as a whole, and I rank The Last Jedi higher than Return of the Jedi.

 

Here's mine, for what it's worth. Sorry if it's a little long-winded, but I originally posted it elsewhere.

• Star Wars - Foundations don't get any more solid than this.
• The Empire Strikes Back - No sophomore slump here!
• The Force Awakens - A bit of a rehash, yes, but it gets more right than wrong-- overall tone being one of the many things done well. It's a fun adventure with little expository fat weighing it down, though admittedly that can be as much a flaw as a strength.
• The Last Jedi - Audacious and unexpected, there's A LOT more here than meets the eye, making it the one Star Wars movie most open to personal interpretation. For example, I see nods to Sun Tzu, Greek mythology and the Battle of the Alamo. I can see inspiration drawn from Unforgiven, Rashomon, a 2003 Battlestar Galactica episode called "33," even Crimson Tide; and visual references to The Godfather and Jules and Jim, among many others. Sure, there are moments that could have been handled better-- Canto Bight might feel out of place on the first viewing, Leia in space feels awkward rather than awe-inspiring, and the whole thing might feel a tad overlong-- but no movie is perfect.
• Revenge of the Sith - A tale of two halves. The first is so-so, but the second is nearly flawless once the cartoonish General Grevious is out of the picture. Plotting is mostly on-point in that second half, but acting and dialogue remain spotty, at best. This could easily swap places with ROTJ in the list, though. I keep going back and forth on that.
• Return of the Jedi - Doesn't hold up as well as the others in the OT for me, due to a kind of nonsensical first act featuring a half-baked rescue plan and Luke's Sith-like takeout of Jabba's entourage, a fairly dull second act punctuated essentially by Star Wars' version of a car chase, and some ret-conning to smooth over the bumpier and unplanned parts of the trilogy's story arc. But all of the energy is saved for an epic third act that absolutely does not disappoint.
• Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - I had a hard time with this at first because of its tone and how it doesn't adhere to established style, but I've since grown to like it. For me, it holds an awkward place in the series-- a non-essential movie about a pivotal moment in the lore.
• Attack of the Clones - Most of my problems with this one are tied to the "romance" and Obi-Wan's dull detective spree, both of which are pretty much contained to the second 30 minutes of the movie. I think it picks up once Obi-Wan tangles with Jango Fett in the rain about an hour or so into the picture. The third act is a lot of fun.
• The Phantom Menace - This one has NOT aged well for me, and I now think it deserves some of the bashing it's gotten over the years. Jar Jar's not even the biggest problem; that would be the lack of a compelling story that for the most part seems dissociated from the rest of the Saga. The third act lightsaber duel is top notch, though.

 

Star Wars 5/5 A perfect movie that stands on its own if needed.

The Empire Strikes Back 5/5 The best sequel ever, yes, even more so than The Godfather Part II

Return Of The Jedi 5/5 Just as good as Empire for me. I don't even mind the Ewoks.

The Force Awakens 5/5 Made me feel like a ten year old playing with the toys with my little brother and neighborhood kids all over again.

Rogue One 4.5/5 Good lead into the original film. I like that it was a gritty war film that could stand on its own without it being a Star Wars film if you took certain things out.

The Last Jedi 3.5/5 I like this one less and less with each viewing. It is rated as high as it is only because the Prequels are so awful. Quite a bit of it doesn't even feel like Star Wars to me. You can mix things up all you want but it still needs to feel like it belongs with the rest of the films.

The Phantom Menace 2/5 I like the pod race and the ending duel. Rest is crap.

Revenge Of The Sith 1/5 At least it isn't Attack Of The Clones is all this film has going for it.

Attack of The Clones 0/5 Worse than walking in on your parents having sex.

 

IMO, the OT are by far and away the best of the bunch, with Empire being my favorite. And by OT I mean the Despecialized versions. None of this Greedo shot first crap, lol.

TFA would be next. It's a very competent reboot of the series and captures the fun and spirit of the OT.

TLJ is next simply because it has Luke, Leia, Yoda, etc. It drags way too much in the middle and could have benefited greatly from some editing.

R1, I consider to be more of a side-story. It's well done but I didn't really connect with any of the characters.

As far as the prequels are concerned, I don't consider any of them to be canon. They're more like really bad fanfic to me, lol. I've tried my best to erase them from my memory.

 

Did any of this ever appear on screen, though?

We have no real idea how the whole Force sensitive thing works, especially in the absence of the Jedi Order.

 

I don't know, why should someone plow a car into a crowd of people? Same reason - the need to get laid.

 

Nope wait a minute, TLJ isn't that simple. The Resistance managed to make it to their hideout with a few ships, signaled for help...and nobody signaled back. They were ultimately bailed out by Luke and Rey. So Leia and Holdo's plan didn't work so good. They'd have been stranded with no fuel in the middle of nowhere.

 

I don't intend to discuss further the movie, but please when you quote, don't just select few words out of the context, especially when this completely changes and twist the meaning of soneosome post.

 

1. A New Hope - Empire may be a better film but this is where it all starts so just wins

2. Empire Strikes Back

3. The Last Jedi

4. Rogue One

5. The Force Awakens

6. Attack of the Clones - I'm not mad, ignore the love scenes and I think this is solid and tight

7. Revenge of the Sith

8. Return of the Jedi - I have a lot of issues with this film. The whole second Death Star is lazy, the first half at Jabba's is dumb and drags, the second half with the Ewoks is dumb and drags.

9. The Clone Wars film - although

10. The Phantom Menace - pretty awful throughout and even Darth Maul can't rescue this nonsense. Boring, stupid racist characters, bad acting...made for 6 year olds I think.

 

I guess this is what we're doing now so...
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. The Last Jedi
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Star Wars
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones

This isn't a permanent order as some will jump around, The Phantom Menace and Attack might swap places from time to time and maybe Star Wars could go back up but I've found that of the 3 originals i've found I'm not as excited about watching it start to finish as much anymore. I used to like Return more than Empire but it seems to me that Empire really set the standard for future Star Wars movies and even though Star Wars got it made it's Empire that made it a franchise instead of a cult hit which would be getting a remake instead of more sequels.

 

I used to feel the same way about Return of the Jedi. I admit, when I was a kid,the first half of the original Star Wars and much of the middle part of Empire bored me. "Jedi" was my star wars film. It took awhile for Empire to grow on me and now it I find parts of Jedi tedious to get through. The final act through is still my favorite final act in all of the whole saga. Lucas pulled all the dangling threads together pretty well.

I will always have a soft spot for "Sith". I think it's Ian Mcdairmed as Palpatine that seals the deal there.

 

I don't pay attention to how often you post, I've just candidly noticed that most of your posts in this thread show great effort being made to defend various aspects of TLJ. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've seen any criticism from you about TLJ. That's all fine, we're entitled to our opinions. And your ranking shows that you must really like TLJ, adding perspective to your posts.

Since this has become a fun game:

1. Empire
2. Star Wars
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
5. ROTS
6. R1
7. TLJ
8. AOTC
9. TPM