Static with new cartridge

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LitHum05, May 10, 2018.

  1. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    I’ve been using an AT95e mm cart and have just upgraded to a new mc cart—Denon DL-110. It sounds so much better. I’m as happy as can be. Except for one thing. My records are sticking to my deerhide mat. No such problem before. Zero static. What gives? My turntable is a Denon DP-1100 (vintage 70s). So, I don’t think there should be a problem with the mc cart matching.

    Help! I need somebody...etc. I really love the new sound and want to keep the cart.
     
  2. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Just so I understand the actual problem...

    You installed a new different cart and your LPs are suddenly sticking to your mat? If that's it, I have serious doubt the two are related.
     
  3. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    You've had some static build-up because of some other change. Perhaps it's drier in your home because of a drop in humidity, or maybe you added some carpeting, etc., etc. Nothing to do with the cartridge change though. A cartridge cannot do what you're suggesting.
     
    The FRiNgE, izgoblin and nosliw like this.
  4. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    Can't it help to drain away a charge? I would have suggested checking his ground connection.
     
  5. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Static charges are surface effects. They dissipate when either a capacitor is present (e.g., when you touch the charged surface), or when a flow of ions is provided to neutralize the charge.

    A cartridge, on the other hand, is not electrically conductive. There is no circuit between a non-conducting stylus and the non-connection between the cantilever and the coils or magnets in the cartridge body. The cartridge generates electricity when the coil or magnet moves rapidly in its field when physically excited by the record groove, but it’s not a conductor per se - it’s a transducer that converts physical movement into electrical energy.

    Static pops occur, as I understand it, because the difference in potential when a stylus moves through a static-charged area of the record causes a transfer of energy that is strong enough to either cause a sudden stylus movement or get picked up by the cartridge coils.
     
    izgoblin, recstar24 and Morbius like this.
  6. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    I gotta agree with Agitater. The ground to the cartridge isn't to discharge electrons, it's there to acquire them. The cartridge needs a source of electrons to send as it generates the signal. They come from somewhere and earth is full of them. If they aren't coming from ground, they are coming from the tonearm or somewhere in the circuit with a possibility of a ground loop through the positive side of the circuit. A change in cartridge isn't causing static. Although distortions from the grounding is a possibility because wires were moved/pulled with the swap. But this isn't static which would be introduced externally from the cartridge circuit.
     
  7. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    I’ve noticed that my static problem is especially pronounced with 180 gram vinyl. I just peeled my turntable mat off the Sgt Pepper 2014 mono reissue. Same thing with the Ramones reissues. Less of a problem with 80s thin vinyl. Is it possible that the new cartridge is especially sensitive to these thicker records? I’m at a loss here. I like the sound of the DL-110, but I’m assuming the static is affecting sound, too. Things were so much simpler with the lowly AT95e. :shake: And to top of off, I’m using a Denon turntable that should be super compatible.
     
  8. Trabik

    Trabik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carrboro, NC
    I use a Denon DP-1200 with the original rubber mat and have never had an issue like this. Is use a 103R cart. Do you have another mat that you could try?
     
    LitHum05 likes this.
  9. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    Okay. You’ve got me there. I’m using a leather deerhide mat stacked on top of the stock Denon rubber mat. Do you think the deerhide mat is creating the static? This was never an issue with the AT95e mm cartridge. Does the problem have to do with the MC properties of the Denon cart maybe?
     
  10. Trabik

    Trabik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carrboro, NC
    It’s worth pulling that mat off and seeing what happens. I agree with other posters that I doubt it is the cart. For about a week I used a friends DL-110 and had no issues, nor have I had issues with the Signet TK5E, Grado Gold, DL-103, or the 103R that is currently in use. Like every other issue in this hobby, we have to go through a process of removing things to find the issue. A mat is an easy place to start.

    Regarding the mats that you are using, does the 1100 have enough rise on the VTA adjustment to allow for two mats and the height of the 110? That seems high for what adjustment is available (assuming the tone arm is similar to that of my 1200).
     
    LitHum05 likes this.
  11. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    The VTA seems fine to me. I’ve been using two mats stacked with the AT95e. The switch in cartridges began the problems. It seems like *something* is happening with the Denon cart switch to cause the problem. No problems prior to this.

    So, maybe it’s a synergy problem with this particular mat and this cart. I hope so. If so, I will just remove it and bring it back I when I switch carts again. I will monitor it without the deerhide mat and see what turns out.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  12. Trabik

    Trabik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carrboro, NC

    Keep us posted. Here in NC we like to say that it’s not the heat, it’s the stupidity, err, humidity, so I can get with your issues and am happy to try to help.
     
    LitHum05 likes this.
  13. Trabik

    Trabik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carrboro, NC
    @LitHum05 - additional thought. After you pull the deer hide mat off and see what happens without it, put it back in without the rubber mat. Maybe the combination is an issue.
     
  14. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    :righton:
     
  15. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    Okay. So, without the leather mat there is still the static. But the stock leather mat is heavy enough that it won’t stick to the record. I really wish there was just no static (like before). Period.

    So, I do not believe it’s a problem with the leather mat. The static remains.

    The option of going strictly with the leather mat (no stock rubber) is no good because it is too thin and screws up VTA. There is no way to lower the arm mechanism to accommodate the change. It’s meant to be used with the thick rubber stock mat because it adds height.

    I have to assume that the problem has something to do with the setup of the new cart. Maybe not the cart itself but some new extra sensitivity introduced into the chain that somehow brings out the static.

    And whatever humidity we may have here in DC, it did not matter one bit with the much cheaper AT95e. It makes me wonder: are certain cartridges more sensitive to humidity changes—even when they are considerably more expensive?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  16. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    If you need a demonstration, put the old cart back in using the same Sgt Peppers LP you mentioned and see if you experience the issue, still.

    There is no cause/effect relation. I've never heard of anybody experiencing additional static due to a cart change. Ever. But let us know what happens when you switch back the cart.
     
    The FRiNgE, LitHum05 and Trabik like this.
  17. Bubbamike

    Bubbamike Forum Resident

    A humidifier will solve this issue thought we are moving into a season that you'll want a dehumidifier in DC. You can try taking a piece of sponge, soaking it in distilled water and placing it on the TT, under the dust cover, if you have one.
     
  18. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    Okay. Here’s an update. I tried the AT95e again. Zero static.

    For whatever reason the stylus on the Denon DL-110 is generating static.

    I still much prefer the sound of the Denon on my Denon turntable. On top of everything, the Denon even eliminates the hum I used to get when first touching the tonarm with the AT95e. But the static is so annoying that I wonder if it’s worth it.

    There is no more sense discussing humidifiers, etc. That’s not a problem with the other cartridge (and never has been). So what in the installation process is creating the static? The members who’ve responded (all of them very helpful) have given all sorts of reasons why carts themselves don’t cause static. I believe them.

    But then why? What has changed from my switch from one cartridge for another? Again, something tells me it may have something to do with mm vs mc carts.
     
  19. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    No idea, but apparently you aren't alone :)

    Help With Excessive Static on Turntable

    I'm pretty sure it's not a MM versus MC issue, though. More likely cartridge body and suspension material differences, but I would've previously agreed with the other posters that it isn't the cartridge, guess stranger things happen all the time. I keep a spritzer bottle of purified water next to my table and lightly mist the record brush before wiping the record surface for each play ... Stylus Brush
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
    LitHum05 likes this.
  20. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    Yes, this is what I’m trying now. Anti-static carbon brush both sides before and after play. Plus clean off stylus after each side. A regimen. It’s hard going to the extremes when you’ve previously had it so easy. Let’s see how this works.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  21. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    Thanks for the link. That’s exactly the experience I’m having. I wish that thread were open to further replies. If anyone has any more ideas please let me know.
     
  22. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    A carbon fiber brush isn't really very effective on its own, there still needs to be a discharge path. In my case, I use the humidity added at the record surface to help discharge the static from the record to the surrounding air. The brush is really just the delivery device. But whatever works, there are lots of methods to reduce static, this problem has been around since we started roaming the earth :)

    You can always request it be reopened, just click the report button on the first post and say you want it reopened, and maybe why.
     
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  23. Trabik

    Trabik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carrboro, NC
    This is seriously odd. I’m hoping someone else (maybe from the other static thread) can offer some advice on this. I can imagine this is going to be frustrating for you,though it will be interesting to see how this works out.
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  24. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco Es Cultura Thread Starter

    Yes, indeed. I’m currently following a strict regimen by cleaning everything on every side of every play (at start and end). It’s minimizing the problem for sure. I will also be posting in the newly reopened thread above sent by Davey. That person had the exact same problem.
     
  25. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 Black book/Grappling hook

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Have you cleaned the needle? W a zero dust or stylus brush?
     

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