Stevie Wonder problem

I recently bought a 24 bit remastered CD version of Stevie Wonder's: Songs in the key of life!. I've never heard another version but I know most of the songs from sampler cd's and old sampler LP's. The tonal balance of this album is OK to my standards as well as clarity and bass. But the problem is the location of the voices (And also sometimes instruments).
Especialy Stevies voice seems to move from the center to the right and back continuously, this happens very often and the movement completes in 2 seconds or so. It is very irritating, kind of sounds like a phase problem.
Is this the problem with the recording or original master? Or is this problem only with this specific remaster version? (Tamla Motown 157357-2 / 358-2 and 359-2 Digital remastered by Kevin Reeves at Universal Mastering studios east.)

(Please don't tell me they wanted to put Stevies common left-right head movements on to disc!)

 

It's true, this side to side stuff does show up on a lot of of Stevie's recordings, his movement from left to right. it's natural for him to do that because he's blind.

The engineers just let the tape roll and let him record all his parts.

There is also the fact that some of the tapes may have damage but that is unlikely, even though the remasters come from second generation copies of the masters.

 

If his movements were recorded...would that mean they use a stereo mike or 2 mikes to record his voice? I never seen something like that with this type of music. Having seen him perform, one could expect that when you are only listening you might hear some volume changes in his voice. Or even a sence of depth.
I am amazed if this movement I hear is the result of the natural movement. I certainly would see all other stereo imaging on my system from a different perspective. At least on this record the movements are unrealistic big.

 

Grant, you sure? They put two mics on him and captured him just moving around? Boy, they weren't thinking of headphone users, that's for sure. I'll have to go listen.

I'm glad they didn't do that when Ray Charles was recording. Wow.

 

I just checked this, played the cd. Especially Village Ghetto Land, his head would be moving from speaker to speaker 5 times in one second. In this record it sounds more like someone playing with phase buttons or something during the recording or mastering.
I also listened to some other tracks and this could be true what you're saying Grant.

I've also compared this CD very briefly with a Stevie Wonder sampler called: song review - a greatest hits collection. Amazing how bad this sounds, like someone has put curtains on my speakers. I never noticed it before, this probably confirms that my system upgrade recently improved the analytical capabilities of it.
I also found it interesting to compare a old recording: say 'Uptight' (from1965 I think), with a modern one "for your love" the old one sound much more "live".

 

From what I understand "Songs In The Key Of Life" as well as the other Stevie Wonder albums that were remastered in 1999 and 2000 were sourced from their original first generation masters. What Stevie has in his possession are the 2-inch multi-track reels of his recordings from 1972 on. Part of the reason some of the tracks on SITKOF sound like they do, is because several tracks on the album were originally recorded on 16-track, then bounced to a 24-track tape for additional overdubbing. There's a possibility that some of "phase problems" you're hearing could be caused by the tape machine being out of alignment during recording although I think It's pretty unlikely considering how meticulous Stevie could be in the studio. I'll have to listen to the album again on headphones and see. I know this album backwards and forwards and have never noticed that. As far as "Song Review" goes, I've never heard it. I always thought it looked like a pretty sub-par compilation.

 

According to Harry Weigner the latest remkasters are indeed from SECOND generation two-track masters that Motown has. Stevie owns the two-tracks AND the multis and won't give them up. The first generation masters are alo reportedly in bad shape, especially "Fulfillingness First Finale".

All Weigner did was EQ the copies to sound good.

Email him if you don't believe this.

 

Wandering vocals

I just checked my 24-bit re-issue - I hear the same wandering vocal in "Village Ghetto Land". I've not noticed this before either but I've also recently made a huge upgrade in my system so this may explain it appearing now. It is quite obvious though so I'm surprised - can someone check the original CD or LP version?....

Stevie does use echo/reverb which is not necessary returned to the same pan position as the vocals (plenty of examples on Innervisions and, I think, Talking Book). It seems he (or his engineer!) likes to send the vocal to the plate or echo chamber or whatever and to pan the return signal to the left, keeping the original vocal channel in the middle. I wonder if there is a phase difference that can be introduced between the two signals in this process which, if the engineer is not careful, causes the wandering effect? I've not noticed it on the other albums but maybe S.I.T.K. of L. suffers from something like this...

Of course, the effect may be totally intentional - either way I quite like it!

It reminds me of the wandering Hi-Hat in "Five Years" on "....Ziggy Stardust....", although I think we can be certain that wasn't intentional .

 

For what it's worth:

I have an original Tamla vinyl issue of Songs, and I played Village Ghetto Land to see if this anamoly was apparent then. I didn't notice it. I don't currently own headphones (damn kids stole them for their walkman's - as Eric Idle said to John Cleese - "Say no more!"), but I did play it through a Dolby Pro-Logic decoder which should be very sensitive to any shift in the center channel and...

the vocals were firmly rooted in the center channel. Must be another of those digital era f-up's, I'm afraid. Seems to have NOTHING to do with that "head wobble"...

 

Suffice it to say we'll probably never hear the original first generation two-tracks in remastered form.

Maybe one day someone can go back to the multis and remix? Naaaaa, Stevie wouldn't allow it. He has no interest.

 

It was Terry Jones, not Cleese, in the original "Nudge Nudge" sketch. What a great thing anyway.

 

If Steve goes to mastering DVD's the first job has to be all episodes from the MP series. My video's start to detoriate (Maybe I should bake them) and I know the book inside-out.

 

Well, you can't have too much Python.

Python DVDs look OK considering the age of the series. They did squeeze a lot of material in each of the discs, but I don't think it would have looked much better even if they went for a higher bitrate, because of the original limitations.

In any case, with Python it is the art, not picture quality that counts.

 

Python DVDs????? I've only see one sampler DVD... Are you saying the original series are available on DVD?

 

Yes the whole series is available, in several 2 disc volumes. I don't know how many there are, I have Set #2 which has 13 episodes. Each volume has this statement on the back:

"Now in glorious digital DVD format so that you, the digital afficianado, can enjoy the original scratches, pops and hisses with crystal clarity".

 

Yes, as seen HERE, for instance.

You could get a better deal someplace else though, DVD Empire is not the cheapest store.

Should probably add this: AFAIR, there is no dreaded "region code" on Python DVDs, so you can play them anywhere in the world. Just make sure that your DVD player can read, and your TV can show NTSC video.

 

In the near future I will stop using this forum for 1479 minutes, great you've made my day. I can refresh my memory and annoy my colleagues even more.

 

You still may want to check if they are coded for Region 1 (US and Canada), if that is relevant for your DVD player. I am almost sure they are not, but I don't have the discs in front of me right now.

Otherwise you might end up with a box of Python goodies that you cannot watch - now that would be a truly Pythonesque situation (like the whole regional coding thing is, BTW).

 

I'm in region 2.

BTW, as your from the Ukraine....did they show MPFC on TV over there in the 70ties?


(For anyone else reading this, yes I is still the Stevie Wonder topic, but we have gotten a little bit off subject her!)

 

Of course they did NOT, because it would have been ideologically incorrect. I first saw it around 1987-88, if memory serves.

Also, "there is not much call for it 'round these parts", as they say in the cheese sketch. Most people in Ukraine don't speak English, and Python is virtually untranslatable.

I will take a look at the discs tonight to see if they are indeed Region 1.

 

How did a thread about Stevie Wonder remasters morph into a Monty Python thread?

 

I agree it is strange how Monty Python took over the Stevie Wonder thread. Maybe these messages should be pruned and transferred to the off-topic section.

Anyway, the Python DVDs are multiregion and should play on any DVD player that has NTSC. I would not trust what the box says about coding (though it does not have the globe with 1 on it), but I trust PowerDVD, and it shows Regions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are allowed for these discs.

Was Region 7 for DVDs that airlines were supposed to rent to people in business class, or something? The whole coding thing IS absurd...